Boost growth by penalizing savings?

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
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swift2540
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by swift2540 » 05/10/08, 00:39

They are already doing it well for high schools, wastewater treatment plants, roads ... etc etc ... full of investments that can be described as "dry loss" from an accounting point of view !!! Whereas in the case of energy production stations (regardless of the technology chosen), there is a real benefit.


Yes, and as I wrote above, dead loss but paid with our taxes, therefore self-financed by and for the good of the community.
If a project like this can both 'free' us from oil and lower taxes to create some kind of self-financing, then great

Pkoi go through an intermediary (the bank) when you could invest with a much higher% gain ... via an association for example?


For a problem of solvency / credibility / ease / distance
If I don't know a project, why invest in it?
The bank in my example (and that of Remundo too I think) has an advisory role and a "safeguard". But on the other hand, nothing prevents the bank from being a nationalized state bank, whose profits would also go to the community, to our well-being either by offering us additional services or by reducing taxes.

A much higher% gain? Ouch, greed comes back at a gallop ... : Evil: : Evil:
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by Christophe » 05/10/08, 00:49

swift2540 wrote:A project like this can both "free" us from oil and lower taxes to create a kind of self-financing, so great


This is exactly my idea! There is nothing impractical given current technological choices!

And what prevents us from realizing ourselves if it is not the will of a minority (= the current energy sellers) to keep their privileges?

swift2540 wrote:For a problem of solvency / credibility / ease / distance
If I don't know a project, why invest in it?


Is that so? And when you invest in a Livret A or LEP or Livret DD (mdr le DD) do you think you know exactly what you are investing in?
WWF has done a great job on the issue: https://www.econologie.com/une-banque-ec ... -3936.html

swift2540 wrote:The bank in my example (and that of Remundo too I think) has an advisory role and a "safeguard".


My c ** ca these are appearances !!! A bank is a business and like all other businesses it has only one and only goal: to make money and if possible the most in a minimum of time ... Cf:

Image

swift2540 wrote:But on the other hand, nothing prevents the bank from being a nationalized state bank, the profits of which would also go to the community, to our well-being either by offering us additional services or by reducing taxes.

A much higher% gain? Ouch, greed comes back at a gallop ... : Evil: : Evil:


If what prevents this are the current banks and article 104 which has abolished what you propose ...
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by swift2540 » 05/10/08, 01:02

This is exactly my idea! There is nothing impractical given current technological choices!


Well you see, we are in the same ideological line



DD booklet


Is it the size of the bonnets? Image

A bank is a business


Not in my example, the bank is nationalized

If what prevents this are the current banks and article 104 which has abolished what you propose ...


Well yes, as the film demonstrated, the perverse effect is there, This is what must be changed and the rest will follow.

The whole being of course not to replace a perverse effect by another ... :!:
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by louphil » 05/10/08, 08:33

One of the few good things that Mr. Mitterant had done in his time, at the very beginning of his mandate, had been to nationalize the banks. But if I remember correctly, the Maastrich treaty had not yet passed ...

Is it precisely its adoption that forced their re-privatization ??? I no longer remember when or under what influence they regained their independence ...

In any case, for me, it is clear, the service provided by a Bank is a public service ... The printing press must belong to the people and not to a private company or to some discreet and occult characters ...
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by Remundo » 05/10/08, 10:20

Hi Christopher,

Christophe wrote:But who's talking to you about lending? I'm talking to you about consuming more and saving less ... The reserve guarantee of 9 to 1 banks can be pushed much higher when they decide and think that the situation justifies it ...so your saver (= all of us?) is just a despicable pawn of their system!

consume a lot, but to buy what? When you have what you need ... eat, drink, heat and shelter, a little gas in the car and basta ...

The saver is not as despised as you might think. When I go to the bank and I withdraw my pay, they make me a dirty mouth ...
Christophe wrote:Uh "mutualized" and available to large-scale companies (= big boxes that don't give a damn about social matters) wouldn't that be a paradoxical "hair"? A large business does not need banks if it is managed soundly !! Mutualization means available to all "mutualizers", right?

shared, that means put in a common pot for a common purpose. Social point in there, but simply the motivation of the profit-sharing. This is how the “average” lambda man works, who has capital to grow.

There are nevertheless social goals in certain mutualisations: these are health insurance, pensions, unemployment ...

Large companies use credit and debt issuance on the stock market, especially large companies. Because strategically, they constantly need fresh money to grab the markets or buy a competitor in difficulty, and sometimes ... mop up their deficit : Cheesy: .

So credit accelerates the economy. You can judge it good or bad, but it's a fact and the truth is somewhere in between.

A small document on debt issues
The important projects it would not be in the STATES to manage them and at RATE ZERO simply (by simply balancing the budget)?

This is a question we can ask ourselves. But States generally demonstrate their inability to manage anything outside of their debt, particularly in France.

The dynamism and responsiveness is mainly found in private partners. When it starts to get hot (technical and financial challenge), the state hands over to the private sector.

For example, the Millau viaduct was entirely designed and paid for by the private sector, notably Eiffage for the works, and is now catching up on the revenues from the concession it has been granted.
Small document where the State is foaming on the Millau viaduct ...
Honor loans :Pgot the idea wrong: do it and I bet you that in the months that follow you will have a lawsuit at the bottom of the bankers for ... unfair competition!

Well it already exists, 390 responses on google. it is done a lot in SMEs (takeover / acquisition) but people need to know each other thoroughly and have confidence ...

Yes I saw. The guy is a little convulsive for my taste : Cheesy:
It seems to me to be a premier agitator. I went to see his site too.
4% for credits ... ok what does that mean for savers? 2%? 3%?

What if we dared to put 0% for savers and 1% for loans? Do not you think that it would "consume better", the only losers would be the banks ... and then, do we owe them something ??

Like I said, the guy who doesn't want to pay a banker doesn't bring his money and he doesn't borrow.

BUT in the modern world, several services are essential: checks, credit cards, secure deposits, access to credit.

A bank has operating costs: computer network, employees, etc.

To say that the saver receives the totality of the profit-sharing paid by the borrower amounts to saying that with the baker, one must pay only the goods and the electricity having produced the bread without paying the service of the baker.

This is what we owe Christophe banks: service.

However, some abuse it, I agree. : Idea:
Last edited by Remundo the 05 / 10 / 08, 10: 31, 1 edited once.
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by Remundo » 05/10/08, 10:30

Come on, a little pub for my region ... :D
Image
The cost of the viaduct amounts to 394 million euros, financed in equity by the company Eiffage who will be the dealer for 75 years. The price of the crossing will be 4,90 euros for cars and will be 6,50 euros in summer. Heavy goods vehicles will have to pay a sum of 20 euros.

source: http://www.techno-science.net/?onglet=news&news=597
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by Remundo » 05/10/08, 10:43

I had not seen that however:
http://www.dailymotion.com/related/x6qa ... s?from=rss

Posted by Christophe, I think. It is well seen.

On the other hand, my previous link tells about a stupidity on the equity ... that surprised me too and I deepened. Eiffage did provide capital, but on the basis of a loan contracted with several banks, of which ... Dexia : Cheesy:

http://www.lemoniteur.fr/actualite/tran ... 2D46DC.htm
The Compagnie Eiffage du Viaduc de Millau has just benefited from the implementation of a refinancing of the engineering structure which it obtained in 2001 concession for the design, construction, financing, maintenance and operation for a period of 78 years.

This refinancing, which takes the form of a bank loan increased by 573 million euros indexed to inflation and with a duration of 44 years, was structured and arranged by DEPFA BANK, Dexia Credit Local, the European Bank of (BEI), Financial Security Assurance (FSA) and MBIA.
This is the first enhanced financing indexed to inflation on this type of asset. The long duration of the concession and the good visibility of future revenues after two and a half years of operation have enabled Eiffage to obtain a financing maturity rarely reached. The indexing of refinancing to inflation also ensures a good match between toll revenue generated by the viaduct and debt service, explains the press release.
In this transaction, Lazard and Linklaters acted as counsel to Eiffage. Clifford Chance advised the financial parties.

(14 / 08 / 2007)


So this is an example that shows that lending and profit-sharing are at the heart of the production of large-scale equipment.
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by Christophe » 05/10/08, 12:39

Remundo wrote:I had not seen that however:
http://www.dailymotion.com/related/x6qa ... s?from=rss

Posted by Christophe, I think. It is well seen.


Ah no I have nothing to do with it ...

For the rest: I think we have a completely different point of view and I don't really want to add layers and layers of argument.

It does not prevent that if you were right and that the credits in excess were the solution to the revival of the growth then, given that it is the solution currently selected, pkoi are we there? (on the brink of the economic abyss?) I deduce that this is not the solution ...

Do not forget that taking a loan is above all lowering your purchasing power !!

Yes banks have their debt service owed that's all we don't owe them the right to control our lives... This service should not cost more than 1 or 2% ...
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by delnoram » 05/10/08, 14:09

Remundo wrote:Come on, a little pub for my region ... :D

Image
The cost of the viaduct is ... I don't know, a little too old.
The price of the crossing is free for pedestrians and cyclists and prohibited for other vehicles, normal it is a greenway. : Mrgreen:
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by delnoram » 05/10/08, 14:21

Christophe wrote:
Do not forget that taking a loan is above all lowering your purchasing power !!


+1

On the other hand, interest at 0% will not bring savings money back into the circuit (whereas it is currently the case), on the contrary, I suppose you have heard of woolen stockings or money under the mattress, it is a tradition in France and it would return in case of 0%.
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