Exhibits: the hold up of banks and the crisis

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
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by Remundo » 19/06/09, 00:01

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Funny right? : Idea:
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by Targol » 19/06/09, 10:50

On the compensation of traders compared to their "usefulness" to the company, let me tell you from personal experience:

Computer scientist for a little over 20 years, I asked myself the question of the usefulness of my work. Not that I don't like it, but more that I had the impression that its only purpose was to fill the pockets - already far too full - of shareholders by always wanting more.

I then tried to make a skills assessment to try a retraining towards a profession more in agreement with my convictions. Something related to the environment for example.
The conclusion of this assessment is that, if I want to do something useful, I almost have to divide my salary by 2 which unfortunately I can not afford.

From this could we not consider the following hypothesis: "In a capitalist society, the salary of a job is inversely proportional to its utility"?
Traders and workers are a good illustration of this concept but there must obviously be exceptions ...

As for the pay-as-you-go pension system, I don't know if you are counting on it, but I have been convinced for a few years that I will have to ask for it without the due time.
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by Remundo » 19/06/09, 10:59

these are interesting ideas, Targol : Idea:

In fact, the 2 fundamentals for peaceful living are:
- clean and sustainable energy production
- clean and sustainable food production

The fact is that 90% of the population in France has neither.
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by Christophe » 19/06/09, 11:09

Good reflection Targol but to see what you put behind "utility" ... and pkoi you can not afford to divide by 2 your salary? And would pkoi be divided elsewhere? There are "millionaire" PV installers you know ...

But there is plenty of thing in the system made by the couple capitalism / GDP which, the more "green" it is, the less they are favorable to the latter.

2 examples: the vegetable garden at the bottom of the garden, ultra ecological, ultra bad for the GDP ... the recovery of discarded objects but still functional or easily repairable, ultra ecological, but ultra bad for the GDP ...

If we do not redefine the rules of capitalism / gdp then we will not get out of it. But we had, with the crisis, the "power" and the opportunity to kick in this shit bag, we didn't do it ... so we continue like this but it only pushes the deadline and the next one will be even more terrible ... in 2012?

By the way, wasn't there supposed to be an "anti-global crisis" economic meeting scheduled during these weeks? 6 months after that of January?

ps: hhihihihi madoff ... our generation will not have retirement, it is useless to take complementary to the con. You will be deeply endowed with inflation and if the system still exists by then.

Your retirement is you who will (or not) ... It is my opinion ... ultra liberal on this one! : Mrgreen:
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by Targol » 19/06/09, 11:25

Christophe wrote:Good reflection Targol but to see what you put behind "utility" ...
A useful activity in this sense is, in my opinion, something that benefits the greatest number even the ecosystem and not a handful of privileged people ...

Although the preferred term should be qualified. If the "privilege" of having lots of cash was so pleasurable, why are there so many alcoholics, drug addicts and suicidal people among the very rich.
In this sense, I also join your aversion to GDP as a measure of the development of societies.
I am deeply convinced that the happiness rate is much higher in the majority of the isolated tribes of Amazonia than on Wall Street.

Christophe wrote:and pkoi you can not afford to halve your salary?
Because I am alone at work at home, I have loans on my back, I have to save money for possible studies for my children, etc.
Believe that if I had been single without children, it would have been a long time since I would have taken the plunge.

Christophe wrote:And would pkoi be divided elsewhere? There are "millionaire" PV installers you know ...
It takes a starting bet to mount this kind of activities that I do not have. If you still have to put your heads in the vice with a bank ...
Personally, I was looking more on the side of bio-climatic design and the possibilities open to me in the matter were paid by the minimum wage.

In addition, to make this more complex, I had to find paid training since my wife does not work.
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by Christine » 19/06/09, 12:10

Targol wrote:
Christophe wrote:and pkoi you can not afford to halve your salary?
Because I am alone at work at home, I have loans on my back, I have to save money for possible studies for my children, etc.
Believe that if I had been single without children, it would have been a long time since I would have taken the plunge.

Without wanting to enter a private domain that does not concern us, it may be a sign that retraining must be a collegial decision in the family. Without doubt the reflection, the efforts (and the satisfactions) must be shared by all ...?


Targol wrote:It takes a starting bet to mount this kind of activities that I do not have. If you still have to put your heads in the vice with a bank ...
Personally, I was looking more on the side of bio-climatic design and the possibilities open to me in the matter were paid by the minimum wage.

Certainly. You did a skills assessment, that's good, but we must not forget that these organizations do not have all the answers. Their way of operating is always the same: putting people in small boxes. If you are not formatted, we tell you "too bad, continue your shitty life ... next!".
I think you have to be more creative and believe in yourself to find alternative projects. Think about your real priorities, eliminate the pressures that you put on yourself but that are not essential.
In any case do not abdicate under bad pretexts.
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by Christophe » 19/06/09, 12:14

+1 with Christine (it's rare !!)

Ok I see Targol, but I took the PV as a simple example of "useful enriching", I did not advise you to get into it (you must know what I think) ...

Yes, bio climatism is much more "useful"!

And who knows maybe that in 2 or 3 years the association will have the capacity to hire to make the useful? 8)
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by Christine » 19/06/09, 12:22

Christophe wrote:+1 with Christine (it's rare !!)


Precisely because it is fundamental. The rest is just superfluous.
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by Targol » 19/06/09, 12:39

Thanks to the 2 Chris for their wise advice.

Rest assured, I only give up temporarily. In 7 years, when the loan of my house is finished, other perspectives will no doubt open up.

As for the fact that the decision must be collegial, we discussed it well with my wife and our opinions converge on the question. It turns out that, like a certain number of "products" of French faculties, his bac + 8 does not offer him any job opportunity at the present time which would allow him to compensate. For her part, she is also looking ...

... Finally, we may be moving away from the subject, there?
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by Christophe » 19/06/09, 12:42

Yes we are moving away ...

But just one thing, without wanting to influence your married life: it's been a long time since I "burned" my "holy" engineer diploma bac + 5 at the level of my "career"!

In other words: who can do more can do less ... even if it's not rewarding but if it's not too boring, pkoi not?

But I am a very bad example of a career! : Cheesy:
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