world we live preview

[eclectron]

Seen on the positive side, on the other side it is the opposite.

Absolutely.
our ease is not necessarily conditioned by the misery of others.
I am convinced that with a tool money and not master, we can live in comfort, without asking anything from anyone (almost self-sufficient). Not overnight, ok, too many outsourcing and not enough local energy.

For about 20 years the average purchasing power (gdp / nb of inhabitants) has doubled on average on earth, while it has been divided by at least five in "impoverished" countries, such as for example in Madagascar, where the monthly salary of a teacher, a police officer or a judge is worth less than 100 euros!

I want to say, nothing to do, just the rules of the game of money that cause this.
On the whole of the earth, taking the average, I think there is enough to feed, clothe, house everyone decently if you wish and without destroying more environment.
Just be sober, a little smart and not spoil the poor with the current rules of money which are cynical and give exorbitant power to the wealthy.

There may not be enough to make iphone XX for everyone because of the rare earths that are aptly named.
and again I am convinced that we can find palliatives for these rare earths.
Anyway, if everyone's goal is to have their iphone ... I leave my place.

[Ahmed]

society is not ready

Of course, by its very nature, this ideology is not only a social constraint which would be borne out of necessity, it is also a powerful internal psychic constraint since it has colonized our brains.

[Grelinette]

society is not ready

I am part of several collectives "of the transition": popular movements which have vocation to act in a spirit excluding, in principle, the omnipresent commercial side and to favor the social and solidarity aspect.

We receive daily, by Internet mailing list, interesting articles, event proposals, original projects and requests for volunteers for solidarity actions.
("The goal of the Transition is to encourage the social and solidarity initiatives of Transition to face peak oil, respond to the climate challenge by putting in place local solutions imagined and tested by citizens").

In recent months, these lists are regularly diverted from their spirit and initial use and are exploited as communication media for commercial purposes, not only by people who knowingly divert them to sell products and services more or less related to "the transition ", but also by others, simple volunteers in good faith and very invested in volunteering, who play the game without their knowledge (of their own accord) and also seek to sell services or products through these lists several hundred members!

In the end, the observation that we make is:

- on the one hand that it is very difficult for the common man to resist the sirens of "capitalism", namely: to use an opportunity which presents itself to try to recover a little money or an interest for its only profit ,

- on the other hand, as soon as a situation becomes a "commercial" opportunity (eg the constitution of a group, even if it says it is far from all commercial ideas), well-advised "profiteers" will be added. to this group to profit commercially.

It is difficult to explain this individual behavior which pushes, consciously and unconsciously, to seek individual profit as soon as an opportunity presents itself, even within the framework of a movement which is said to be fundamentally "non-commercial". It may be written in the genetic heritage of each of us ... some manage to control this discomfort, others not!

It is a somewhat crude but real analysis.
Could it be the famous "conservation reflex", currently exacerbated due to the economic crisis, which would push us to adopt as soon as a situation arises, a very individualistic behavior even within a collective? ...

In short, it's not won!

[Ahmed]

No need to invoke any "conservation reflex" to explain the power of "memes", which are to the psyche what genes are to the body. Men are social animals and their faculty of imitation, so precious in that it allows them to learn, becomes a drawback since it leads to mimetic desire and therefore rivalry ...
Different strategies have been used over the ages to curb violence, but the abandonment of market forces as an external, impersonal and neutral constraint did not really achieve the goal, since direct violence was only very partially limited and that violence of an unsuspected nature gradually undermines the very conditions of life on Earth.

[sen-no-sen]

It is difficult to explain this individual behavior which pushes, consciously and unconsciously, to seek individual profit as soon as an opportunity presents itself, even within the framework of a movement which is said to be fundamentally "non-commercial". It may be written in the genetic heritage of each of us ... some manage to control this discomfort, others not!

It is a somewhat crude but real analysis.
Could it be the famous "conservation reflex", currently exacerbated due to the economic crisis, which would push us to adopt as soon as a situation arises, a very individualistic behavior even within a collective? ...

In short, it's not won!

Human relationships follow a fractal geometry.
Societies evolving in difficult conditions generally adopt very close social relationships based on mutual aid (mainly within the group or towards non-hostile foreigners).
The reasons are very simple, when the conditions are difficult you have to know how to "stick together", there is a need for mutual aid.
Conversely when conditions become easier, the need for the other reduced, which promotes individualist behavior.

[Ahmed]

What you describe is correct, but it should be added that our society presents particular traits: never in the history of humanity has we been able to observe such a great dependence * of each individual vis-à-vis the group for all aspects of life and yet, solidarity has never been so weak (which is why there are state palliatives). This paradox is explained by the simple fact that this dependence is done through market exchanges and that those on which we depend (just like those who depend on us) are, in their immense majority, complete strangers.
Let us not forget that this very particular individualism is also (here I place myself from a point of view symmetrically opposite to the previous one, therefore of the cause) a necessity for the optimal functioning of the market, which is to achieve the greatest possible waste.

* Inability for the most part to do anything other than the narrow field of its specialization, which can be of no use since this activity only serves to be sold on the market and almost never partially consumed.

[sen-no-sen]

What you describe is correct, but it should be added that our society presents particular traits: never in the history of humanity has we been able to observe such a great dependence * of each individual vis-à-vis the group for all aspects of life and yet, solidarity has never been so weak (which is why there are state palliatives). This paradox is explained by the simple fact that this dependence is done through market exchanges and that those on which we depend (just like those who depend on us) are, in their immense majority, complete strangers.
Let us not forget that this very particular individualism is also (here I place myself from a point of view symmetrically opposite to the previous one, therefore of the cause) a necessity for the optimal functioning of the market, which is to achieve the greatest possible waste.

Yes very fair, I did not find it necessary to note it again because we had already had this discussion it seems to me ...

[Grelinette]

The reasons are very simple, when the conditions are difficult you have to know how to "stick together", there is a need for mutual aid.
Conversely when conditions become easier, the need for the other reduced, which promotes individualist behavior.

True, but in this case what surprises me is indeed basically a group is formed, based on mutual support, solidarity and collective energies to unite in the face of difficult conditions and within this group behaviors resurface very individualistic, behavior that is inherently contradictory to the basis of the group, or even destructive group.
For example, whenever you attempt to opportunistic exploitation and more or less insidious group, immediately following a series of stalls many other group members.

Upon reflection, the question I asked myself this finding (this latent opportunism resurfaces in any situation), it is whether this behavior is part of ourselves as a kind of innate reflex (certainly beneficial in crisis ) that appears suddenly, without our knowledge, if an opportunity presents itself,
or if this behavior is a kind of societal "formatting" which makes us act in line with what society teaches us, namely that capitalist (individualistic) behavior is most suited to our society today!
(my explanation is a bit convoluted but it is not easy to explain this paradoxical phenomenon within the group).

[Grelinette]

Here are 2 examples to illustrate what I'm trying to explain:

- I worked for some time for a very active association of education in Sustainable development which advocated respect for the famous triptych "Economy - Ecology - Social". Its importance and its notoriety meant that it captured almost all local subsidies for this type of activity to the point of causing the disappearance of small local "competing" associations, and inevitably turning them against.
This paradox meant that this association, which carried the good word of solidarity, appeared as an association with "capitalist behavior" which gradually became a local "monopoly" for education for sustainable development (with subsidies )! The situation was truly ubiquitous: the leaders of this association said they were slayers of "capitalism", which destroys the economy, society and the environment, and finally acted, in their field, like real capitalists.

- As part of a collective for the transition, the projects and requests for intervention of volunteers are announced by mailing lists. Regularly at the initiative of members who have a personal interest in it (and who probably think they are acting for a good cause), pseudo-announcements slip into this mailing list for proposals for internships, sales of products and services, etc. ... and in the wake of these "commercial" announcements dozens of volunteers unsubscribe and drop out of this collective.

[Ahmed]

The first example of your last message illustrates the fact that, inexorably (unless you have a very mature political conscience) any attempt to inflect acts or thoughts that would go against or try to compensate for the dissipation of energy always ends up contributing to it: economism is not only an external constraint, it is first of all a behavioral pattern that has taken root in our psyche.
You write:

... or if this behavior is a kind of societal "formatting" which makes us act in line with what society teaches us, namely that capitalist (individualistic) behavior is most suited to our society today !

Absolutely! Each act that goes in the direction of the system is automatically rewarded, as anything that goes backwards is penalized, so this easily guides our behavior. Obviously, reward or punishment must be understood as categories of capitalism, that is to say more or less access to commodities or to what this implies in the eyes of others subjected to the same alienation (because the " need "is mainly that of mimetic desire).