world we live preview

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
eclectron
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2922
Registration: 21/06/16, 15:22
x 397

Re: World in which we live preview




by eclectron » 21/01/17, 11:47

Ahmed wrote:It is I who underline what is serious: men now relating to each other through merchandise, this raises the question of the possibility of overcoming the collapse.

Personally, I am "enough" : roll: confident, solidarity can quickly emerge when needed.
Rather, it is an attitude that emerges in the event of a disaster, rather than everyone for himself.
0 x
whatever.
We will try the 3 posts per day max
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963

Re: World in which we live preview




by Ahmed » 23/01/17, 19:40

I don't think you can get much out of an explanatory grid focused on interest, given that the interest of capital, whether temporarily fictitious or real, has not posed, historically speaking, a problem the functioning of capitalism, in the logic of which it fits perfectly, to the point of having long constituted one of its most powerful engines.
The real systemic problem today is not the interest of debts, but the fact that, unlike previous phases where real capital stemmed from fictitious capital * and came to increase social capital, fictitious capital which is consumed or which is repaid with a new loan disappears when it matures without anything remaining. This has the consequence that to maintain its influence on the activity producing value (abstract), it is necessary constantly to increase the mass of fictitious capital, since it is necessary each time to provide a volume of reimbursement (which is therefore destroyed) and a capital at least equivalent to the previous one, to play the role of expired securities. It is therefore not on the interest that the game is played, but on a linear increase in the capital: during its destruction, a base 100 must be replaced by 200, then in turn by 300, then 400, etc. .. In this sense, credit, instead of being a fortifier, has become a simple palliative which permanently infuses the economy, producing less and less value.

Things are therefore much more serious, because this frantic race for an increasingly uncertain future valuation leads to the black hole that evokes Sen-no-sen here.

* The goods contain the value only until its marketing, after that what is no longer for the buyer that a consumer good or a short or medium term investment is immediately destroyed (consumption) or gradually (automobile, home), while the value returns, increased, in the capital-money of the industrialist.
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749

Re: World in which we live preview




by sen-no-sen » 24/01/17, 11:57

eclectron wrote:Personally, I am "enough" : roll: confident, solidarity can quickly emerge when needed.
Rather, it is an attitude that emerges in the event of a disaster, rather than everyone for himself.


Attention, solidarity depends on a certain number of cultural factors, and this solidarity is itself correlated to the degree of collapse.
All contemporary conflict zones confirm that solidarity has limits and is often limited to the family sphere in the last place.

Out in a company led by economism, where most of the family ties have been shattered (you only have to see the number of seniors who "end up" in "retirement homes" !!!) have little to wonder what will happen in the daytime "j".
Likewise, the power of resilience in industrialized countries is increasingly weak, to which is added the multiculturalism imposed by economic liberalism which risks leading to confrontations between communities.
In reality our industrial society constitutes the most vulnerable social entity in the history of humanity.
Let it be said that the society of false abundance still has 10/30 years ahead of it ...
1 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963

Re: World in which we live preview




by Ahmed » 24/01/17, 19:12

And conversely, the poor rural populations of peripheral countries, having much less to lose and being able to count on non-commercial structures for their daily survival are rather clearly more equipped to face it than the central countries ...

Let us also remember the collapse of the USSR, in a context where "resourcefulness" and mutual aid preexisted and had already operated for a long time with very little money * et simple, solid and easily repairable equipment, now imagine the same collapse in western countries, with the loss of simple knowledge, monetary alienation and equipment polar opposite to that of the Russians?

* Salaries with random payments ...
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
eclectron
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2922
Registration: 21/06/16, 15:22
x 397

Re: World in which we live preview




by eclectron » 25/01/17, 16:13

Interesting about resources and technology.
Philippe Bihouix, “Low technologies; an ecological solution?”, Paris, May 24, 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xg_UJiR5kc&spfreload=1
0 x
whatever.
We will try the 3 posts per day max
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963

Re: World in which we live preview




by Ahmed » 28/01/17, 12:17

This nice speaker has interesting ideas and obviously knows his subject well and many other things which he is reluctant to expand on, for the reason that this would not be his area of ​​expertise. I regret this self-limitation which could have led to fruitful reflections: it is the totality that needs to be understood. This bias leads him to propose solutions proportionate to the physical limitations he sees, which is rather a good thing, except that the realism of his positions, which should encourage a certain optimism if one is in the sphere in which he speaks (adaptation to possible resources), fairly cruelly shows that this approach has no chance of prevailing, for the reasons he chooses (it is his right!) not to examine.
A point that I particularly appreciated is that concerning "the energy transition" ...
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963

Re: World in which we live preview




by Ahmed » 31/01/17, 23:18

Eclectron, you write:
Personally, I am "enough" : roll: confident, solidarity can quickly emerge when needed.
Rather, it is an attitude that emerges in the event of a disaster, rather than everyone for himself.

As rightly remarked Sen-no-sen, the current mode of operation of our societies does not incline to consider that solidarity would inevitably result from a collapse.
Sen-no-sen, you write:
In reality our industrial society constitutes the most vulnerable social entity in the history of humanity.

Solidarity no longer needs to be expressed, since it has been replaced by another form of "solidarity" which stems from our extreme dependence on others (historically, at a level never reached before), but from the fact that this dependence is anonymous, it is not perceived for what it is, which explains the non-contradiction that we notice with a strong development of individualism.
Moreover, this conceptually presupposes the idea (which you do not express, but which is underlying) that if the alienation by the economy (which makes the relation between people the relations between things) were to disappear at the same time as the economy and its specific categories, humanity would return to a form of essentiality from which it had been deprived. It is obviously a Platonic idea which does not correspond to reality: there is not a human essence in itself that it would suffice to "rediscover" by evacuating an alienation which would come to prevent its expression. Other alienations have taken place in the past and the essential characteristic of an alienation is that it never appears clearly as such. I conclude that an emancipation passes by a conscious choice of the type of social relations and of the "metabolism with nature", to use an expression of Marx.
As I said before, an important question is that of the chronology: either we are waiting for the systemic collapse and it will be very difficult to implement intellectual resources under these conditions, or we are taking advantage of a still rampant crisis, much richer in possible bifurcations ...
In any case, I do not perceive a collapse as the bearer of anything other than astonishment resulting from the sudden disappearance of the psychic categories which structured us as a society. The apocalypse means etymologically, in Greek, "unveiling" or "revelation", but it will be rather that of our collective blindness.
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749

Re: World in which we live preview




by sen-no-sen » 01/02/17, 21:02

Ahmed wrote:In any case, I do not perceive a collapse as the bearer of anything other than astonishment resulting from the sudden disappearance of the psychic categories which structured us as a society. The apocalypse means etymologically, in Greek, "unveiling" or "revelation", but it will be rather that of our collective blindness.


Imbalance, the term is entirely appropriate, indeed the global brain responds in a manner quite similar to its human sub-component.
In a period of pre-collapse, the system floods society with a kind of anesthetic: it is the crisis of subjectivation of which we now know the symptoms (Titanic syndrome, oxymoron politics, cognitive dissonance etc ... ).
Once the collapse is reached, the subjects are suddenly brought into contact with reality, the society is then subdivided into several groups which approach the situation in different ways: sideration, blockage, violent withdrawals, flight, it is chaos. .
The danger currently hanging over our societies is directly linked to this lack of resilience and to the growing disparities between cities and countryside, social classes, communities, etc.
0 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963

Re: World in which we live preview




by Ahmed » 01/02/17, 21:59

To echo your last lines, so that solidarity can occur, this presupposes minimal initial conditions: we can only share if some people have some resources first, we can only help each other towards a common goal if this goal is discernible and has a sufficiently real substance ... A collapse in its brutal version (therefore not the current progressive phase) would show us * that a lack of electricity would nullify our chances of survival, since it would interrupt almost instantly all what we represent as more permanently storable: water, fuels, food reserves, medicines ... **
The collapse of the Soviet bloc was only that of a non-competitive part of (state) capitalism, it was the prelude to that of the general system and by no means its definitive success.

* I use the conditional, because I am not a prophet and the collapse can also result in a progressive sinking in increasingly harsh conditions. See: all is not lost! : Lol:
** Of course, there are institutional parades, but they are absolutely not designed to deal with an event of this magnitude.
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749

Re: World in which we live preview




by sen-no-sen » 01/02/17, 23:05

Ahmed wrote: A collapse in its brutal version (therefore not the current progressive phase) would show us * that an absence of electricity would nullify our chances of survival, since it would practically instantly interrupt all that which we represent as more durably storable: the water, fuel, food supplies, medicines ... **


It is very difficult to imagine in what precise form the collapse could occur *, the current phase being rather disintegration.
It should be noted however that this one can very well be presented in an apparently "positive" form. The singularity advocated by transhumanists is beautiful and well a collapse (in the strict sense as well as figuratively) but presented here in a more "appetizing" form.

There is a high probability that such scenarios will become clearer, so it will become even more difficult to explain the threats.
Indeed the classic civilizational collapse due to lack of oil is very implausible, the capacities of economism Since restructuring is very strong, it is a safe bet that the system is developing countermeasures (such as a merger).

* The two most probable causes for the collapse would be appreciably stemming from the same cause (technologism) but would direct us towards different future: global epidemics (1) (certainly caused by bioterrorists) with a very brutal backtrack and a drastic reduction in the world population ... and incidentally a good deal for the biosphere ...
Or a point of overcoming in the technique irretrievably leading humanity and the biosphere to its end, it is in reality the most catastrophic scenarios, but it is also the most acclaimed!


(1)
Finally there are the so-called “emerging” risks. These are risks which, a few decades ago, remained confined to science fiction but which, with the advance of science and technology, have passed into the realm of "playable". Thus, the possibility of modifying or even manufacturing genes, with, for example, technology CRISPR, she points out the danger of seeing terrorist groups or ill-intentioned states creating pathogens that are both lethal and contagious. Imagine the deadly cocktail of a virus associating the dangerousness of Ebola with the contagiousness of chickenpox. Or imagine that we are reconstituting a strain of smallpox from the genome of this virus, sequenced several years ago, even though populations have no longer been vaccinated against this pathogen eradicated for almost forty years. Imagine again, to come back to the case of H5N1 mentioned above, that someone gives a little "boost" to nature to make this virus easily transmissible between humans

http://passeurdesciences.blog.lemonde.fr/2016/05/04/petite-liste-des-catastrophes-auxquelles-vous-avez-pour-le-moment-echappe/
0 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.

Back to "Economy and finance, sustainability, growth, GDP, ecological tax systems"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 130 guests