Sarkozy: 26 Billion for the automobile and housing ...

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
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Sarkozy: 26 Billion for the automobile and housing ...




by Christophe » 04/12/08, 13:16

Little subject rant (one more) and which will upset the world but too bad ...

Sarkozy unveils 26 billion euro plan to revive the economy
(see article below)

The sarkozette, bonus of 1000 € for scrapping, to have more power to consume, renew a car not necessarily HS and therefore pollute even more (it takes about 150 km to "make profitable" a new car, replacing a car still running, on energy and CO000 !!) ...

Well done the gift for the environment ... Bravo Sarko, well done for the state ... But after this mess, please don't come and talk to us about "pipo grenelle de l'environnement" ...

The 2 sectors that will benefit the most from these billions are:
a) the building / accommodation
b) the automobile.

What bothers me "a little a lot" is that these 2 sectors have made billions of profits during the last years ...

Worse: Renault which has just fired 4000 people to better relocate to the East ...


FYI, these 26 billion gifts are to be compared to the French state budget, ie more than 10% OF THE BUDGET given like that at the head!?!

The budget of the Ministry of National Education constitutes the first item of the state budget (28% in 2007).

The budget of the Ministry of National Education reached 58 billion euros, which represents an increase of 0,18% compared to 2007.


http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid29/le-b ... udget-2008


But more generally this measure saves an industry, which in any case is doomed to term .... at least doomed by the power it currently occupies ... the private car has no future in the medium term!

And if these 26 billion had been invested in econological technologies (in the broad sense) ... We can always dream ...

Ah, the state only lends to the wealthy ...

Really stack this measure!

Sarkozy unveils 26 billion euro plan to revive the economy [04/12/08 - 12:14 PM - updated at 12:32:00]

The measures presented to Douai by the President of the Republic represent 1,3% of the GDP. Some 10,5 billion euros in additional public investment will be injected into the economy.

After having rushed to the aid of the banks, Nicolas Sarkozy unveiled in Douai a vast economic stimulus plan to try to stem the crisis and cushion its social consequences. "It is" a structural crisis which will transform the economy, society and politics for a long time to come. (...) The world which will emerge tomorrow from this crisis will be profoundly different from that of yesterday ", launched the Head of State who concludes that it is therefore necessary to be" ambitious, daring, imaginative ".
€ 10,5 billion in additional public investment

In this context, the Head of State insisted on the first part of the recovery: the public sector will take over from private actors to boost investment and support production.


http://www.lesechos.fr/info/france/300314186.htm
Last edited by Christophe the 04 / 12 / 08, 14: 21, 1 edited once.
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by loop » 04/12/08, 13:24

Hello

it takes about 150 km to "make profitable" a new car, replacing a car still running, on energy and CO000 !!) ...


Well, it was not that long ago that we were talking about 40000 km

The new calculation, if it is correct, confirms my idea of ​​keeping my old 205 D.
Too bad the car manufacturers do not offer reconditioning of vehicles!

A+

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by Christophe » 04/12/08, 13:55

No for 40 is the gray energy necessary for manufacturing. That is to say that you will consume as much energy by driving 000 km with your new car as the energy (all inclusive) that was necessary to make it (from A to Z).

It is not the same concept as the one I just mentioned which is as follows: how many km do I have to travel with my new car for the replacement of my old one to be "profitable" on energy for the planet?

Example, in your case (you can refine):

a) your car 205, well run in but far from being HS, consumes 6.5L / 100
b) you change it with a 206 that consumes 5.2L / 100
c) the 206 will therefore have cost in gray energy, assuming the 40km rule: 000 * 5,2 = 400 L
d) you will therefore have to do 2080 / (6,5 - 5,2) = 1600 times 100 km or 160 km so that you can start saving energy by replacing your car! In short so that it is "profitable" for CO000 and the depletion of resources ...

160, 150 ... I was really close ... the main unknown being precisely the value of these 40km ...

So please ... don't change your car "just for fashion" until these cars are completely out of service!
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by yannko » 04/12/08, 17:22

Well it promises : Shock: I did not expect such figures, but it is undeniable :| !
I am very happy to drive (rarely, once every 2 weeks 50km, once a month 1km, the rest of the time public transport and train) with my R300 from 19 (Chamade 1989L petrol carbu), and I will change for nothing in the world meanwhile, it works well, it's my titine :D on the other hand seeing the number of LPG pumps in the corner (Prague but also in the rest of the country), I wondered if the installation of a kit would have any sense ... I will ask the question after consulting the posts on LPG, since I have not read that good.
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by loop » 04/12/08, 21:35

Bonsoir

Thank you Christophe for this clarification

your car 205, well run but far from being HS, consumes 6.5L / 100
b) you change it with a 206 that consumes 5.2L / 100
c) the 206 will therefore have cost in gray energy, assuming the 40km rule: 000 * 5,2 = 400 L


Well to tell the truth, my car only consumes 5l / 100 km
So buying a 206 would be doubly negative in my case : Mrgreen:

A+
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by Christophe » 04/12/08, 21:43

Nothing for clarification but as I said on the subject of RIAZ: l would have to confirm a little this value of 40km ...

loop wrote:Well to tell the truth, my car only consumes 5l / 100 km

So buying a 206 would be doubly negative in my case : Mrgreen:


Hihihihi you not good CON ... summing up! Sarko would give you a bad point!

Lais pkoi do you think we have implemented technical control if not to accelerate the renewal of cars?

When I was to see Pantone in 2002 I drove in a pickup where 20% of the floor area was missing ... The CT there should not know :)

In other words: you could see the road very well looking at your feet ...
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by crispus » 06/12/08, 00:56

Christophe wrote:pkoi do you think we have implemented the technical control if not to accelerate the renewal of cars

Interesting. A little research shows that the CT was implemented in 1992, in the wake of the economic crisis that followed ... the bursting of the housing bubble of the 1980s.

Vehicle sales plummeting, the government has therefore acted on repression, to discourage owners from keeping their car beyond 5 years, then 4 thereafter (to avoid the shame of having a CT badge on its windshield) ...

As that was not enough, came the incentive, with the "balladurette", which unbalanced the second-hand market. The first time when it was released, by encouraging people to buy new at the second-hand price, a second time when buyers of cars put them up for sale ... all at the same time ... It was necessary to extend the measure with the "skirt" ....

It is not excluded that repression will also start again to impose more counter-visits!

The funny thing is the next obligatory check of the catalytic converter, by analysis of the O2 levels between the lambda probes placed before and after the pot: in the case of "effective" Gillier-Pantone, the O2 rate being maximum as soon as the engine is released, a counter visit is foreseeable because of ... pollution! (But maybe it has already been mentioned?).

Generally speaking, all state aid goes into the pockets of the sellers: if this system of "artificial solvency" did not exist, they would have to adjust their prices down for lack of customers ...
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by Corpse Grinder 666 » 06/12/08, 07:33

I join Christophe to stack ...
Always for the same, besides that people remain in front of their screen and .... sleep .... ????

Nothing for the homeless (because it does not die of cold from 0 ° or below but indeed from 17 °, the poorly housed?
Nothing for communication towards lower consumption (given the situation to tell the truth, no need ...).

Opposite the centrist socialists (since we cannot say that he is on the left) aquiessent ....
All the same ....
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by Remundo » 06/12/08, 10:46

Hi friends
: Cheesy: : Cheesy:

Change cars to consume less, and save a few Euros?

I have a Renault 19 petrol 1.4L from 1995. It consumes on average 7 to 8 L / 100 when I whip it, and 6L when I drive very soft (most often ...). Let's assume 6,5L / 100.

I drive 15 km / year. If I buy a new one that consumes 000L / 5, I will make 100x (150-6,5) = 5 L of fuel saving per year ...

Or roughly 225 Euros. Except that the car will cost me 22 euros: it takes 100 years to amortize their bullshit

Something else...
You have a car full of steel and plastic that smells good ... It is generally accepted that a new car emitted CO2 twice its weight to be manufactured

A 1500 kg car is 3 Tons of CO2 emitted ...

Based on the same kmtrage: 15 km / year
let's assume that the new car makes 130 g CO2 / km
the old car: 160 g.

CO2 savings: 30 g / km, i.e. over 15 km: 000 kg / year

Or another 6 or 7 years of CO2 depreciation

You see the calculations:
- 100 years to find your way financially
- 7 years (or 105 km) to compensate for the gray energy of the new car.


It is a measure of support for the automobile market to bring in VAT. That's all...

: Evil: And when will REAL HYBRID CARS NON DI DIOU DI NON DI DIOU : Evil:
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by Christophe » 06/12/08, 11:12

Hi friend!

Thank you for this other approach ... But I would rather speak of gray CO2 in your conclusion ...

a) It is not only petroleum-based energy that emits CO2 that is used, such as a lot of nuclear electricity. I bet if we make the correction we fall back on the 150 km that we found above.

b) Starting from 2 times its weight, ie 3 Tons, with 130 g / km of CO2, the car must therefore travel 3000 / 0.13 = 23 km to emit as much CO000. By increasing by 2% according to a) we fall straight in the range of 30 to 30 km at the gray energy level.

We are therefore perfectly in the order of magnitude that the manufacture of a car emits as much CO2 (consumes as much energy) to be manufactured as during its 30 to 000 km ...

I would always like to have more precise figures, models by models if possible ...
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