Geological resources: there is not only oil that will miss!

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
netshaman
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by netshaman » 04/06/13, 15:01

In my humble opinion, I believe that we must take into account the logarithmic acceleration of consumption and reduce the number of years accordingly.
If we base ourselves on this graph it falls on the pile with my prediction of end of society in 30 years!
: Mrgreen:

Let's add to that at the end of the phosphorus and the sand of course!
20 years to break everything at the speed where it goes (in the best of cases)
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by Did67 » 04/06/13, 17:42

By the way, being adept of a "cyclical" agriculture (and not "organic"), I invite to take into account the resources in two major fertilizing elements: P (phosphorus) and K (potassium).

These two elements are extracted from mines and "spread" as fertilizer, therefore diluted in the soil.

They are "compatible" with "organic" agriculture, which is careful not to shout from the rooftops that it contributes to "empty" the stock of a geological resource!

[the dogma of "organic" agriculture being that what is natural is allowed; what is synthetic is prohibited; nitrogenous angrias - N - are mainly synthetic, therefore prohibited; P and K are natural, therefore cross-linked; the "natural" S is also authorized ...]

There is a reflection on our model of agriculture - including organic !!! - which is difficult !!! [and generally, passed over in silence, because what is "organic" is "beautiful", is by definition "green" - so shhh, shut up this inconvenient question!

Come on, it was my claw of the day against the "organic sores"
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by Janic » 05/06/13, 07:48

They are "compatible" with "organic" agriculture, which is careful not to shout from the rooftops that it contributes to "empty" the stock of a geological resource!

first news! what kind of organic farmer are you talking about?
Instead of turning your eyes to the so-called organic, find out from those who have been practicing for 50 years and you may have another look.
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by Christophe » 05/06/13, 07:55

Calm janic, did it right! There are chemicals used in organic farming, they are simply much less aggressive than the conventional ones!

+1 dirk pitt the best known example: There was more oil in the year 2000 ... in 1975!

About the future, look: https://www.econologie.com/forums/le-futur-p ... 12564.html
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by Janic » 05/06/13, 09:59

christophe wrote:Calm janic, did it right! There are chemicals used in organic farming, they are simply much less aggressive than the conventional ones!

What annoys me are the "resistance fighters of the last hour who alone won the war". I referred to AB from 50 years ago because at that time AB was made up of purists who had raised awareness of the poisoning for which "all" chemicals are responsible, and particularly in their profession. First for themselves (that is to say their family, relatives) as much as the consumer at the end of the chain. Unfortunately (and fortunately from a certain angle by doing away with the cult image that was attached to it) the officialization of AB was made by reducing the requirements put in place by the pioneers and therefore allowing the use of products unacceptable when we claim the term organic (it's like the 1% GMO allowed). However, I fully understand (and this has given rise to debate in organic associations such as Nature et Progrès) that agriculture being his livelihood, the farmer cannot afford a loss of his production, but therefore should be distributed in standard and non-organic circuits because it is an abuse of trust towards consumers who agree to pay for their purchases above the retail price, but expect in return a product related to this effort (we find this similarity with natural treatments where some consider that it is just good for minor injuries, but that for more "serious" cases you need good chemicals, very effective, as if effective were therefore synonymous with harmlessness)
But here again, it depends on the level of requirements of producers and consumers. A certain number of people buy a few organic products from time to time and the few chemicals in the products, so-called organic, actually do not weigh compared to all those who will be on the rest of the products purchased.
So I understand Did on his formula "organic bobos" by considering that some, called bobos, only follow a fashion phenomenon, but that leaves the impression as if these being representative of the majority of organic consumers. So I invite him to get better information from real organic producers and consumers and this may change his outlook on the subject.
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by Did67 » 05/06/13, 10:22

No no !

I started to study "organic" agriculture at the end of the 70s! And I'm still there! Read some of my threads, and you'll see! I visited the Goetheanum; did you do it ? For 20 years, we have set up an agricultural training cycle with a mention "biodynamics", etc ... etc ... 4 weeks ago, I was at Wenz (the one who appears in the report "Harvest of the future "by Marie-Monique Robin and took a bus there (I translated) ... Do you know ???

I was talking about organic farming labeled "European green leaf" and / or "French AB" acronym. Without further mention.

There is of course a set of organic approaches, and we cannot put Biodynamics (Demeter label; do you know?) And classic "AB" in the same bag. Of course.

No no, you are wrong target!

Now, it remains that the "organic" farmer labeled "AB" or "euorpene green leaf", in short what the vast majority of consumers buy when they say they buy "organic" [I also have a private life and I am also invited to meals where the hostess proudly announces "Eat, c'est du Bio!"], therefore this "organic" agriculture uses P and K fertilizers from geological deposits, which will run out very quickly. I should write, is allowed to ... Some do. Others don't. There are also organic fertilizers, resulting from the recycling of organic materials, there is also the digestate of methanization units ...

Since they can use copper (which is also a geological resource - but here it rather raises the question of soil poisoning) or they can use rotenones, a "natural" insecticide with a broad spectrum that kills. the bees.

If you have contrary facts, you put them.

If you think that I am simply an imbecile, be careful not to be ridiculous ...
Last edited by Did67 the 05 / 06 / 13, 13: 26, 1 edited once.
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by Christophe » 05/06/13, 10:26

Did67 wrote:If you think that I am simply an imbecile, be careful not to be ridiculous ...


+1

What I like with you Didi is that, unlike others, you can keep your cool and not go into personal invective!
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by Did67 » 05/06/13, 11:06

An important point: I consume regularly, in a non-exclusive way, "organic", because it is obviously, in general, much less worse.

Now on the question of "geological resources" which is the subject of this thread, there remains this question! Which seems too easily overshadowed by the "organic groupies"!

As the electric car poses that of the source of electricity.

Or how the pellets raise the question of the "forest carbon sink"!

Alas, in this world, nothing is just ideal.
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by Did67 » 05/06/13, 13:24

Christophe wrote:What I like with you Didi is that, unlike others, you can keep your cool and not go into personal invective!


1) A post is necessarily reductive (compared to a thought, which is colmplex). Therefore, being misunderstood or misunderstood is normal.

2) As you know, I have nothing "to prove" on the internet. Therefore, I can easily admit that my ideas are trampled ...

3) All my life, I doubted. I never thought or felt that it diminished me.

Defending your ego at all costs is for me the expression of a deep distress, of a neurosis or whatever ... Like all those who "fight" ceaselessly for anything and everything.

Hitler fought. Nelson Mandela or Gandhi convinced. Find the mistake. There are two "geniuses" and a poor guy ...
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by Janic » 05/06/13, 14:19

did67 hello
I like this development better!
I reacted to this sentence: "Come on, it was my scratch of the day against the "organic sores"" seeming to emphasize that bio = sores ". This, so overall we agree!
You also underline this: "An important point: I regularly consume, in a non-exclusive way, "organic", because it is obviously, as a general rule, significantly less worse. "
Insofar as you take into account certain so-called organic, I can only follow you. Professor Belpomme, a renowned oncologist, also protests against this low-cost organic product from countries where the specifications (when there is one) are rather lax and where certain supermarkets are generally supplied, we cannot even not to say if it is less worse since apart from a more or less dubious quality, there is abuse of confidence with consumers most often ignorant of what a real organic product should be.
However, there are still brands that remain attached to the initial philosophy (you indicate Demeter for example) and it would be a shame to create or leave a possible suspission on them. Therefore "do not put all the eggs in one basket".
However, our approach is different in that you are from time to time and me all the time: a question of choice!
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