Public debt: bankruptcy of Greece ... who's next?

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
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Flytox
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by Flytox » 13/07/15, 14:25

bamboo wrote:We must stop the bullshit: if they did not want Europe or Euro, they were not obliged to enter, or forced to stay.
And if they stay, it's because they know they are in trouble outside.
A bit like moaning against Tanguy dad / mom, but are happy to take advantage of the roof and the food!


In democracy, it is a handful of elected decision-makers who decide on the "future" of the country .... by following the recommendations of a few large "generous" funders (BoldmaneSaxeu etc ...). The Greek rulers at the time had an interest in it, or thought they had one, but whether the Greek country or people could benefit from it in one way or another is another matter ... .

If all Greeks had had objective information on all the ins and outs of the entry into the Euro etc ... and a real power to decide their fate, they might be doing something else.
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by bamboo » 13/07/15, 15:50

The Greeks now know the ins and outs ... And they want stay in Europe.
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by Did67 » 13/07/15, 17:25

chatelot16 wrote:
good government means to effectively use all available means as are for example not to waste the money automate easy work when there is work available from the hand

the largest European country in ruins was dropped their industry with this kind of mismanagement, but in the great country that mistake is suportable longer than in smaller countries



You forget that individually, each company has every interest in automating! [as it is in its interest not to bear the ecological costs of its activity, which are "shared" - see health!]

And that if a government would force them, they relocate ...!

It is not mismanagement.. It is an implacable logic, with as basic ingredient, the lack of means of "politicians" to regulate the economy [it is not for nothing that they came to exist, to exist, to compete with the "people" !], with the momentum towards globalization / relocation / deregulation (which benefited us individually : let us never forget that we would not have the standard of living, in "quantity of goods", without the small hands of the countries with low costs! So we were never really against: we throw ourselves on the last I-thing, made in China!]).

The most "competitive" pulled the others down:

- China and other Asian countries, become dominant for mass production (even if today, it is already delocalized further: Kenya, Vietnam, etc ...).

- Germany "restructured" - violently - by Schroeder (read what the so-called Hartz measures included from the beginning of the 2000s, following the big blow of bamboo that was the digestion of the "cash" absorption of Germany East - 1 East Mark = 1 West Mark, an expensive poker move from Kohl, but politically "elegant" !: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9formes_Hartz) on "high value" production, "industrial design" ... Remember that in Germany there is no minimum wage, people who accept jobs at 4 euros!

[So do not be surprised they are as virulent with the Greeks !!! They also morflé, though, were the first today, they benefit wickedly regained their competitiveness! I think even if it is arrogant, they have some legitimacy to open it, to return to what has been written above!]

And to a certain extent, USA is also getting off for the "virtual" (Google, Facebook, Amazon ...). As we have seen, because of their "universal currency" (let's not forget what represents, cumulative, their colossal private debt, and their issue of currency without counter-value!)

And between these two, others (France, Italy, Spain, but also Japan and Korea!) Have derusted !!!

Even if each of the niches remains: finance / laundering in Switzerland, luxury / fashion / champagne in France, high-end mechanics + luxury (Ferrari, fashion ...) in Italy, etc ... which allows them to "drag yourself" between two waters ...

If we do not understand that, it is because we are naive. Or a blind follower of "yaka", "ifaucon" solutions!

As always, this is just my opinion and my vision. To debate. Even if the ideas seem arrested!
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by Did67 » 13/07/15, 17:28

bamboo wrote:. And they want stay in Europe.


The majority of people just want the banks to reopen just survive! Eat...

For this, they are resigned to n 'anything. I do not think it's a membership.

Businessmen want, yes, the euro, to continue to do business ...

There are Greek and Greek ...
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by bamboo » 13/07/15, 18:04

Not 80% of businessmen ...
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by Ahmed » 13/07/15, 22:40

The government is elected by all voters, so mostly the people (after selection by the political apparatus), to defend the interests of the economically ruling classes (who own the mass media, financing parties ...), it which explains the apparent contradiction ...

If not, DidI agree with your analysis, except for Germany, because there is a lack of nuances which probably results from too compact form of your message.
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by chatelot16 » 13/07/15, 23:20

Did67 wrote:You forget that individually, each company has every interest in automating! [as it is in its interest not to bear the ecological costs of its activity, which are "shared" - see health!]

And that if a government would force them, they relocate ...!


it's not as technical reason was that grow automate ... it's also because tax! manual labor is heavily taxed ... the electronic equipment made in china to automate happen without tax by ebay or aliexpress

there is no question for me to slow automation is generally a progress! but not depanser was excessive in automatistion to offset the taxation of labor

when I speak of mismanagement, not the error corporate boss who manage with with the rules that defined the state ... I criticize the state management of defined error Rule pushing all business in a bad way!

I spoke automation but the delocalization is another way to avoid the tax on labor ... the taxation of labor is therefore a dual management error ... if it does not cause automation it causes the delocalization
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by Ahmed » 14/07/15, 09:04

Except that these "state errors" are reproduced everywhere, since in reality are the constraints of the economic system ...
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by antoinet111 » 14/07/15, 09:28

It's still sad, we lack a good little Jospin, he lacked charisma but had fiscally sustainable solutions.
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by Did67 » 14/07/15, 09:46

Ahmed wrote:
If not, DidI agree with your analysis, except for Germany, because there is a lack of nuances which probably results from too compact form of your message.


Of course !!!

In particular: it is not because we have reason we must know how humiliating!

And there is of course the "psychodramatic" dimension, between a powerful finance minister, who has the wads of cash, in a wheelchair, who knows that without his agreement, there is no progress possible and a " brilliant troublemaker who loves to provoke and ... give lessons with other people's money "[Yaroufakis, if you didn't recognize him].

Here, we are no longer in effect.

It is in the human comedy, which played a lot!

I was just trying to locate it slows down the rendering of macroeconomic way:

- Liberal economies largely dominant
- De facto globalization
- countries in competition: "competitiveness", in these circumstances, will have the last word
- what is happening there is the "bill" represented by the lack of competitiveness in Greece

I think that a country can sortyir of the euro. No problem. If he is rich. As I pass me da bankers insofar as I adjust my consumption to my income. Tomorrow, I miss my banker. Without any result possible.

The indebted can not: if the little green guy does not make it a new credit, captured his car, his house and it is not safe to eat properly from the 25 month ... So he flounder.

This is what Greece has just understood [because surprisingly, for now at least, it is bending - it was enough to close the banks for 8 or 15 days for "the people" to understand what it is: bankruptcy, and therefore rescue asked others, just to eat tomorrow ...]
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