Public debt: bankruptcy of Greece ... who's next?

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
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chatelot16
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by chatelot16 » 12/07/15, 13:16

the VAT is a way to make a work collector to all companies ... it would work well if all companies were honest ... it completely derails if there is fraud

the more there is misery and unemployment in a country the more there is risk of fraud

impose an increase in VAT to Greece as if it were a miracle solution seems to me absurd

Greece will stop becoming impoverished when there will be new economic activity: real business construction ...

how can europe advise Greece to revive its productive activity, while at home in France we have left in ruins huge piece of our industry?

the normal method of straightening a country is the devaluation of money: it takes directly into the pockets of all those who have money in any form, including dirty money in cash

the devaluation is perhaps the most radical wealth tax

the single European currency deprives countries of this means of governing ... it is a mistake to have made this single currency before having developed a European government like the United States of Europe

must Greece leave the euro to devalue in its corner?

the devaluation of a currency is effective only when the currency has been used by everyone for a long time, and it is impossible to instantly convert the money we have in other currencies: in the case of abandonment of the euro all those who are knowledgeable will know how to take advantage of the maneuver to enrich themselves, and the weaker will still be the victims

there is only one solution, the whole of Europe must operate the billboard, and finance the loss of Greece will be a joke

a devaluation of the euro will favor the economy of all European countries by favoring local manufacturing and favoring the purchase of Chinese bazaar

before the creation of the euro I had foreseen this problem by seeing the CFA franc: common currency to several African country completely indepandant: which makes it impossible for each country to evaluate a small can when it is useful therefore when it is necessary to devall the decision is made too late making devaluation huge brutal and harmful

if europe is not able to run the billboard to bring down the euro, sooner or later there will be a catastrophe
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by Ahmed » 12/07/15, 13:46

Europe is certainly not prepared to put off Greece's debts, since it is a good way of pressing for financing on the backs of the Greeks, in the same way that it earns itself rents in Africa through the same illegitimate debts.
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by The shadow » 12/07/15, 16:39

chatelot16 wrote:the VAT is a way to make a work collector to all companies ... it would work well if all companies were honest ... it completely derails if there is fraud

the more there is misery and unemployment in a country the more there is risk of fraud

impose an increase in VAT to Greece as if it were a miracle solution seems to me absurd

Greece will stop becoming impoverished when there will be new economic activity: real business construction ...

how can europe advise Greece to revive its productive activity, while at home in France we have left in ruins huge piece of our industry?

the normal method of straightening a country is the devaluation of money: it takes directly into the pockets of all those who have money in any form, including dirty money in cash

the devaluation is perhaps the most radical wealth tax

the single European currency deprives countries of this means of governing ... it is a mistake to have made this single currency before having developed a European government like the United States of Europe

must Greece leave the euro to devalue in its corner?

the devaluation of a currency is effective only when the currency has been used by everyone for a long time, and it is impossible to instantly convert the money we have in other currencies: in the case of abandonment of the euro all those who are knowledgeable will know how to take advantage of the maneuver to enrich themselves, and the weaker will still be the victims

there is only one solution, the whole of Europe must operate the billboard, and finance the loss of Greece will be a joke

a devaluation of the euro will favor the economy of all European countries by favoring local manufacturing and favoring the purchase of Chinese bazaar

before the creation of the euro I had foreseen this problem by seeing the CFA franc: common currency to several African country completely indepandant: which makes it impossible for each country to evaluate a small can when it is useful therefore when it is necessary to devall the decision is made too late making devaluation huge brutal and harmful

if europe is not able to run the billboard to bring down the euro, sooner or later there will be a catastrophe

Your message is fair :D
But remember that we are under the American flag for 99% of our daily life € is no exception
But your analysis seems to me respectful of certain principles : Mrgreen:
Good evening to all : Lol:
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by Did67 » 13/07/15, 07:49

Just for info: the billboard works in Europe, since 1 100 billion emission Draghi plan ...


Well, it is no longer really a billboard but "quantitative easying", basically, the redemption of real debts by "ECB bonds" (therefore virtual money!). Which amounts, by a sleight of hand, to giving the same equivalent sum, in real money, to central or private banks ...

The effects were immediate: significant decline of the euro (= restore competitiveness to European companies) + avoid deflation (which was done, while Japan had entered deflation) ...

You forget an important factor to the devaluation that you propose to Greece - I mentioned it above: tomorrow, the Greek banks remain closed; they will reopen with a devalued currency, devalued by about 50 or 60%; the day after tomorrow, so, de facto, pensions or wages will have been divided by as much...

A loss of purchasing power of 50% wholesale, it is a much more radical purge than what proposes the Eurogroup !!!

It's not for nothing that Tsipras finally clings to a deal! It is even "less worse" for the people (even if they do not want it!) .. No offense to the brilliant economists of the FN or the far left ...

A medium / long term, you're right, it would give competitiveness to Greece, which could, after reaching the bottom of the bottom, back up ... If people have not committed suicide before! And if entrepreneurs want to produce! (and not just speculate!) ...
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by chatelot16 » 13/07/15, 08:23

if Greece had not been in the euro it would have devalued a little for a long time and would have had the positive result without the inconvenient of a devaluation too big

of course that the exit of the euro is much more difficult, and even impossible

fortunately the euro has come down ... and for how long it has been to discuss it before deciding it: yet the solution is the

europe accuses Greece of not charging enough tax ... i accuse europe of not having used earlier the issue of currency to finance the european state

we sometimes say "it is only madmen and economists who believe in continuous growth"

the economists are not so crazy: even in a world of finite dimension with limited resources and a population that does not increase, it is logical that the amount of money in circulation continues to increase: it avoids that some concentrate too much money and leaves no more to others

the issuance of money is simply a means of taxation! that Europe has refused for too long

the issuance of currency taxes all those who use it ... if the issuance is reasonable, not stronger than the issuance of $ americain the currency is trustworthy, and used worldwide ... if the Issuance is too strong there is brutal devaluation, no one abroad has to use the currency, and it makes big devaluation which only tax the inhabitants of the country which devaluates

it is therefore much more logical for europe to issue euros than to allow Greece to end alone

the exit of the Greece of the euro for 5 years is an absurdity
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by Did67 » 13/07/15, 09:16

Compare to the US dollar is misleading: the US has a unique privilege - their currency, is, in fact, the universal currency!

No other country is in this situation.

Not even Europe.

Note that if Europe manages to install a stable euro, this could "disturb" the American monopoly. Some countries, like China, were already "stocking" the Euro so as not to put all their eggs in one basket!

But hey, the debate here is not "continuous devaluation via the creation of money" - which is also, I would point out in passing, a dangerous instrument: do not forget the German hyperinflation of the 30s and its direct political consequence! If Greece had chosen the path of its own currency, printing money and devaluation, given the size of its deficit, it would have experienced something comparable. Do not forget it !!!

The subject of this thread is: the bankruptcy of Greece / the debt of countries ...

My opinion - this is only an opinion: I would like Greece to leave the euro, to nail the beak to those who "advocate" this path (also at home); but I don't wish it on "ordinary people" in Greece because it would be dramatic. Today they are poor. Tomorrow, by this way, they would be miserable, in the street!

I do not speak here of theories.

But today, what to do in Greece. Banks are closed. Retirees crack in the street ...
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by Christophe » 13/07/15, 10:45

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by bamboo » 13/07/15, 11:24

We must stop the bullshit: if they did not want Europe or Euro, they were not obliged to enter, or forced to stay.
And if they stay, it's because they know they are in trouble outside.
A bit like moaning against Tanguy dad / mom, but are happy to take advantage of the roof and the food!
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by chatelot16 » 13/07/15, 14:03

Did67 wrote:Compare to the US dollar is misleading: the US has a unique privilege - their currency, is, in fact, the universal currency!

No other country is in this situation.

Not even Europe ...


that's it ... the American dollar is used at the 4 corner of the world and the American can print as much as he wants without devaluation

I find that the euro is approaching this situation too, and when its value rises it is not enough

it is much more profitable to print euro than drachmas! would only want euro even if it's not dollar it has a more stable value
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by chatelot16 » 13/07/15, 14:12

bamboo wrote:We must stop the bullshit: if they did not want Europe or Euro, they were not obliged to enter, or forced to stay.
And if they stay, it's because they know they are in trouble outside.
A bit like moaning against Tanguy dad / mom, but are happy to take advantage of the roof and the food!


it's the tanguy effect!

to fight against the parents taking advantage of the situation? or in the other parent sense that gives false indication, in the kind works well in school to have a good situation, while the system no longer works and that whatever the level of study there will be unemployed not because they are not trained enough, but because they are poorly governed

good government means to effectively use all available means as are for example not to waste the money automate easy work when there is work available from the hand

the largest European country in ruins was dropped their industry with this kind of mismanagement, but in the great country that mistake is suportable longer than in smaller countries

it is not enough to give stupid advice to Greece: we must first apply them at home: when we will be able to revive our industry we can show Greek how to do the same thing
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