Public debt: bankruptcy of Greece ... who's next?

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
Ahmed
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by Ahmed » 08/07/15, 12:17

The comparison between the debts of a household and those of a state, even if it is tempting, is inadequate.
Today, all the states * are in debt for reasons which I have developed previously and which are structural; the problem is therefore not the debt, or even its amount (since it will never be repaid anywhere), but the balance of power between the countries: thus, the most indebted of all, the USA, live on rent ensured by their currency and is much better than the Greeks, since one produces counterfeit money and the other feeds its creditors with what is left ...

Note: the interest rate on the Greek debt is not zero, it is now around 2,3% (after several successive reductions), i.e. at the same level as that of the German debt, which shows that it is not a "gift", as some people try to believe.

* China is provisionally an exception since it accumulates "rotten" American dollars as well as the currencies provided to Europeans by debt ...
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by Did67 » 08/07/15, 15:50

Ahmed wrote:The comparison between the debts of a household and those of a state, even if it is tempting, is inadequate ...


I will agree with you when it comes to "guarantees", "reimbursement" ...

Today, apart from the debt, Greece, which has no gross surplus (it had it), spends more than it collects ... AND this is what I wanted to explain with the comparison. And for a country without a printing press, it is well in the situation of a household.

In this case, I can refine the metaphor a bit: if Europe is the big family (who wants to manage their expenses / resources limit your debt), Greece is a kind of youngest who always lacks money from pocket and who chronically spends more than what he has ... and who once again cannot pay the cell phone subscription, the car insurance, the ticket to take the girlfriend to the cinema, and come to cry at the table ...

[except that obviously, it is much more serious: it is a question of health, education, eating, lodging ...]

Except the USA, in fact, who have succeeded in imposing their currency on (almost) everyone, and therefore who live comfortably on their money press, this does not hold elsewhere! There you are of course right. But they are not going to save Greece. They don't know where it is!

For Europe, it is indeed one of the challenges to overcome this, by creating the euro and imposing it as an international currency ... (which has not yet been done, even if some countries are also starting to "mix" their cash, between euros and dollars ...).
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by Did67 » 08/07/15, 15:55

At the moment, on the website of the newspaper Le Monde:

In the letter addressed to MES, the Greek finance minister promises to reform the Greek pension system and tax system next week to obtain a three-year loan to cover debt repayments.

Promising to honor its financial obligations, Athens adds that it “has confidence that the member states understand the urgency of [its] loan request given the fragility of [its] banking system, [its] shortage of available liquidity, (…) [His] accumulation of arrears domestically and [his] willingness to settle [his] arrears vis-à-vis the IMF and the Bank of Greece ”.


[MES = European Stability Mechanism]

Learn more about http://www.lemonde.fr/crise-de-l-euro/a ... 7iC617j.99

If it were necessary to be clearer on the fact that the referendum did not settle anything at all, it is enough to read the letter of the Minister.

The day before the referendum, it was not possible to reform pensions or taxation ...

Tomorrow it would be ????
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by Did67 » 08/07/15, 16:40

Ahmed wrote:
Note: the interest rate on the Greek debt is not zero, it is now around 2,3% (after several successive reductions), i.e. at the same level as that of the German debt, which shows that it is not a "gift", as some people try to believe.



Since 2012, and until the election of Tsipras, interest was repaid to the Greek central bank ! So it's a bit the same, except that it allows everyone to write or say anything!

On November 27, 2012, the Eurogroup decided that this interest would be transferred to the Greek central bank from 2013. The move was part of a larger package (already) designed to make Greek debt sustainable. According to concordant sources, 2 to 3 billion euros were thus repaid to Greece in 2013. On the other hand, for 2014, Greece is still waiting for the central banks of the euro zone to repay the interest received on its debt.

In : http://www.franceculture.fr/2015-06-30- ... six-etapes

[a good, precise file, far from the usual bullshit; in short, France-Culture, what!]
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Ahmed
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by Ahmed » 08/07/15, 18:15

Yes, you're right, I'm a bit far ...
However, all these "gifts" are not disinterested, since it is a question of bleeding the patient to the maximum without however killing him: fairly banal extractivism, but until now reserved for more exotic countries.
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by Ahmed » 10/07/15, 07:43

According to the latest news, Syriza would have decided: the betrayal of her voters seems to her to be the strategy most favorable to the interests of the oligarchs of this party ...
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by antoinet111 » 11/07/15, 12:50

unfortunately it is that or nothing. on the other hand it was not obliged I think for the port of Piraeus.
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by Ahmed » 11/07/15, 13:18

Saving money (on the back of the population) is not saving money!
Structurally, Greece is under-industrialized and cannot fight against countries with higher productivity, within the framework of an equal monetary parity.
Its only possible salvation would be to invent an original solution and to abandon principles which condemn it ... something likely to displease the European Union and far removed from the spirit of Syrisa.
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by antoinet111 » 11/07/15, 13:24

You are too theoretical, what is needed in this country is first of CONTROL !!! tax and rules, no right pass like church and big richard.

a real tax policy, a logical VAT (not necessarily 20).

and rules on the consumption of local products; Germany is too big a supplier of these poor people.
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by The shadow » 11/07/15, 14:40

I don't understand the model we are advocating : Shock:
VAT is a dangerous model and copied by a certain Giscard d'Estaing
he proposes and theorizes an indirect tax on consumption
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Laur%C3%A9 : Evil:
Which is an economic aberration :? because does nothing except mass mowing : Cheesy: it's not very democratic or economical : Lol:
It allows the state to tax wrongly and across companies and worse allows mass embezzlement, the examples in numbers on the web
and want to simulate an economic model that goes straight against the citizen what to move forward? model who made thousands to leave behind : Evil:
20000 miscellaneous taxes is a model to follow : Mrgreen:
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