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Janic
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Janic » 01/03/17, 13:55

If humanity tends towards artificialization, it is because of the degree of colonization of the brains operated by technologism,proof that there is a force at work and that this one uses us to achieve its advent.
"woe to the land and the sea because the devil came down to you, animated by a great anger knowing that he has little time"Revelation 12-12
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by sen-no-sen » 01/03/17, 16:23

Janic wrote:
If humanity tends towards artificialization, it is because of the degree of colonization of the brains operated by technologism,proof that there is a force at work and that this one uses us to achieve its advent.
"woe to the land and the sea because the devil came down to you, animated by a great anger knowing that he has little time"Revelation 12-12


Symbolically we could actually see the work of the devil or the Beast ...
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Janic » 01/03/17, 17:55

Symbolically we could actually see the work of the devil or the Beast ...
it would be rather close to a metaphor without really being it since finding its realization through and therefore in human history.
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Ahmed » 01/03/17, 18:25

We could usefully bring the Devil closer to entropy ...
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by sen-no-sen » 01/03/17, 19:26

Janic wrote:
Symbolically we could actually see the work of the devil or the Beast ...
it would be rather close to a metaphor without really being it since finding its realization through and therefore in human history.


Satan is the angel who wants to become the equal of God.
Out in his quest to become the equal of his creator, Satan is irremediably drawn towards The Fall.
If we transpose this to cybernetics it appears that this divine metaphor corresponds with the inevitable finality that systems have exponential tendencies (which tend towards infinity therefore) to collapse ... so it's good caution!

Ahmed wrote you:
We could usefully bring the Devil closer to entropy ...


Indeed, division, adversity and confrontation are a social transposition of entropy.
In the oriental tradition this notion is however developed in a more subtle way, the God Shiva or the goddess Time represents both destructive and constructive functions of the world, one cannot go without the other.
This is very fair, because remember that a universe without entropy is a universe that cannot generate diversity and even less life.

The generation of possibilities can only take place in a field oscillating between a point of equilibrium. If this field is too restricted the conditions necessary for the appearance of life are not met, and conversely, if they are too strong, causes a disappearance of this one, the current humanity approaches the second case.
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Janic » 01/03/17, 19:41

We could usefully bring the Devil closer to entropy ...

In a way: yes! But with caution as to the meaning attributed to this entropy. For some it is linked to more or less hazardous forces which would be consecutive to errors of human behavior as being able to decide or influence the future of this planet and acting as a kind of prime contractor.
But on the theological level, biblical in this case, humanity is not a master builder but only a worker performing the work assigned to it, like ants or bees. However, and this is where notions such as god or devil intervene, each working towards a different realization of the destiny of the living that exists on this earth. But obviously, we are there in metaphysics and no longer in the currently dominant materialism, hence metaphorical indicators on the purpose of this "competition".
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Ahmed » 01/03/17, 21:07

Janic, materialism only applies to the claimed subjectivity, other determinisms are at work underground.

Sen-no-sen, yes, we should then speak of excess entropy. Your comment makes me think of a limit of capitalism that I had not specified in my article (even if I have spoken of it elsewhere, on the occasion): the market is totalizing, in the sense that it seeks to occupy hitherto non-commercial sectors for phagocytosis, but in doing so it tends to its destruction, since an entirely commercial world is impossible. It is in this sense that local currencies, the UK and workers' cooperatives, or other similar initiatives, are not opposed to the system, but are necessary to it.
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Janic » 02/03/17, 08:41

Ahmed hello
Janic, materialism only applies to claimed subjectivity, other determinisms are at work underground.

You're right, I used the wrong term as opposed to metaphysics. By that I meant the physical world, that of matter precisely, that which is measured, weighed, touched, feels like being the limit beyond which nothing exists. The transhumanism mentioned is directly linked to this world of physics only et depends entirely on human creations : machines, measuring instruments, weighing of all kinds and believing as real world only that one, denying and rejecting everything else until a new instrument, a new machine allows to recover by this transhumanism / materialism , which he had previously rejected and denied.
So we see what the effects are like on those who (follow my look!) Prefer to believe in inappropriate measuring instruments, rather than in millions of concordant experiences.

Sen no sen hello
Satan is the angel who wants to become the equal of God.

I did not have the feeling, in the study of the texts concerned, that any satan had the pretension to be made with the equal of god. It represents the figure of doubt when faced with a situation (Job 1 and 2) which only disappears when reality shows through in experience, in this case by absolute confidence in the truth, justice even through the trials of life. . This is why he is called the father of lies " for there is no truth in him ».
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Janic » 02/03/17, 09:15

I should have added this:
In contrast, Christ Jesus says: "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me"which gave a distortion in the understanding of the text by the fathers of the Church who deferred on the individual their faith (deifying him) rather than on what he indicated as an objective according to the model he offered by His life.
But we can stop this slide out of the subject!
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by sen-no-sen » 02/03/17, 11:03

Janic wrote:I did not have the feeling, in the study of the texts concerned, that any satan had the pretension to be made with the equal of god. It represents the figure of doubt when faced with a situation (Job 1 and 2) which only disappears when reality shows through in experience, in this case by absolute confidence in the truth, justice even through the trials of life. . This is why he is called the father of lies " for there is no truth in him ».


In the tradition, Satan (or Lucifer *) is to be considered as a proud being wanting to be made the equal of God, it is probably about text of Hellenic inspiration (myth of Prometheus) to recover thereafter.
In the Old Testament we find a passage referring to this notion of fall:"You fell from the sky, Bright star, son of the dawn! You are cut down to the ground, You, the conqueror of the nations! You said in your heart, I will go up to heaven, I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the assembly mountain, At the end of the north; I will climb on the top of the clouds, I will be like the Most High. But you were thrown into the grave, into the depths of the abyss
Isaiah 12, 13, 14, 15.

* In certain traditions Lucifer (the carrier of light **) is to be regarded as a sort of liberator come to bring knowledge to humanity, in other it is to be regarded as a harmful being another name of Satan.
This point is important insofar as it clearly appears that there is an anthropomorphic conceptualization here relating to liberal (Lucifer liberating) or conservative (Lucifer being demonic) currents.
It is not difficult to identify his points of view these days through the ever-present currents of which transhumanism constitutes the latest update.
** Which was also one of the appellations of Christ in the primitive periods of Christianity, which in no way facilitates understanding!
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