The meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...

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Ahmed
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Ahmed » 23/02/17, 21:57

What seemed to me interesting in the words of Florence Burgat, it is on the one hand the anthropological argument of a will to assert itself at the expense of the animal, on the other hand the questioning, or at least the questioning, of the importance of hunting in prehistoric man (with the great blur that this label marks).
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Janic » 24/02/17, 09:07

Ahmed hello
What seemed interesting to me in the words of Florence Burgat is on the one hand the anthropological argument of a will to assert oneself at the expense of the animal, on the other hand the questioning, or at least questioning, the importance of hunting in prehistoric man (with the great blur that this label marks).

indeed this vagueness serves pseudo scientific interests serving to justify our current behavior within the framework, also vague, of the evolution.

Florenc Burgat also says:
One of my main theses is that the institution of meat eating perpetuates a deadly relationship with animals.

I don't really share this point of view! Indeed, in certain circumstances as in certain regions where plants are lacking (deserts, glacial regions) meat remains the only food product available and I do not believe in a deadly relationship in these circumstances. Similarly, nomadism also means finding its subsistence in products available on the slopes throughout their journey and the easiest is food on its feet.
On the other hand for our societies, it is not a murderous relation towards animals which is observed, but this murderous madness is a substitute for the desire to kill, which exists in each of us, towards: the boss, his spouse, living environments, etc. and who can be evacuated by this means. These are the burnt offerings, the genocides, the wars which also express this need for liberation through the death of others.

More interesting this aspect:
It was a banal killing, without any particular cruelty, but something jumped to my face: I realized that by eating meat, I was participating in this killing process. Obviously, I had always known! But it's as if until then I was only half conscious of it. I ate and even bought meat without thinking about it. I then decided to no longer be an accomplice. And the festive representation of meat has been replaced in my mind by a morbid reality.

There I think that is the key to a change of mores towards our fellow men who are the other animals of which we are part, even if the religio-pseudo-scientific culture wants to create a distinction which just serves to justify our spirit of domination over others. , by qualifying these others as inferior, and by the same to qualify themselves as superior, thus becoming judge and jury. It's so ingrained that even you use the formula: "it's on the one hand the argument anthropological a desire to assert themselves at the expense of the animal, "implied the non-human animals as if we are not one of them.
This may seem a detail, but that is important since it dissociates us or not from the rest of the other animals.
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by sen-no-sen » 24/02/17, 10:47

Ahmed wrote:What seemed to me interesting in the words of Florence Burgat, it is on the one hand the anthropological argument of a will to assert itself at the expense of the animal, on the other hand the questioning, or at least the questioning, of the importance of hunting in prehistoric man (with the great blur that this label marks).


The analysis of Florence Burgat seems to be based on a Freudian approach.
I find it very difficult to think that people would consume meat to establish their dominions with a will (a pleasure?) To chew, digest then defecate an animal .... : roll:
Most people love animals, but their sympathy is quickly short-circuited by their habits (programming ...), causing a phenomenon of cognitive dissonance.
As mentioned Janic, eating meat is primarily a food necessity in many parts of the world.
In industrialized countries the consumption of meat products is primarily cultural, and is related to the increase in purchasing power.
It is a phenomenon of imitation of the dominant classes which falls very quickly (economic market requires) in the sphere of eating habits and mass practice.

On an individual scale it appears that nowadays the populations of the industrialized countries are much more attentive to the respect of animals than from the past.
Thus a very large number of citizens are opposed to bullfighting for vivisection or industrial farming.
This has not always been the case, especially in certain regions where it was customary to throw a goat from the top of a tower, to burn alive Cubs, to catch a cat by the tail and to throw it against a wall and other abominations ...
However, its not so distant eras were characterized by a consumption of meat far below today ...
From then on it can easily be deduced that the barbaric practices of industrial breeding, eminently "forgotten" by the populations, is a consequence of economism and phenomena of mass imitation, implemented by the economic market *, more than unconscious desires.

Paradoxically, there has never been as much sympathy for animals as these days and never has there been so many all-out massacres (industrial farming, vivisection, deforestation, hunting), similarly there has never been so much sport and at the same time of obese people, never so much cooking and ... fast food, never so much green talk and pollution ... which corresponds well to the phase of subjectivation characterized by a mass cognitive dissonance, a prelude to collapse.




* It is also the same phenomenon that is at work in the practice of skiing ...
Lots of people ski, not out of love for alpine sports, but because they insidiously slip into their brains ...
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Ahmed » 25/02/17, 12:50

I do not know (for not having read the book in question) if it is a Freudian approach or simply symbolic *, but it is certain that our relationship to animality remains something difficult, because precisely of our irreducible animal part, not easy to assume (and which finds in transhumanism a magnificent strategy of circumvention).
Of course, I hear your arguments, but I do not think that they contradict the words of Florence Burgat. The other point that she put forward was the uncertainty regarding the consumption of meat during the very long period of prehistory and, I add, the little known role of the relationship between hunting and religion.
I think that the general sympathy for animals is to be compared, like all the cognitive dissonances that you mention, with specialization: only a small number of people are in contact with the reality of the link between animal and meat. On the other hand, a distinction should be made between vague sympathy for wildlife which is limited to its most visible or glamorous elements (who cares about toads, earthworms or snakes?) And domestic animals for which manifests a sometimes mind-boggling anthropomorphic projection.

* I find his remark about anthropophagy very relevant.
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Janic » 25/02/17, 13:08

and, I add, the little-known role of the relationship between hunting and religion.

Despite many years of studying the BIBLE, I have never noticed this report, as a lesson, of course! Can you be more precise ?
For religions other than those which come from this source, I do not have an opinion of course.
I also wanted to add, rather repeat, regarding the killing on "animals" that if every consumer were to kill what he consumes, vegetarians would explode in numbers suddenly and as we are in the days of the agricultural show, it seems strange that a large part of the sector is not represented there, that is to say the slaughterhouses and their method of slaughter on site. : Evil:
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Ahmed » 25/02/17, 14:00

I was talking about the relationship between hunting and religion in prehistoric times, nothing to do, therefore, with the Bible ... Perhaps I should rather have spoken of religiosity or religious / sacred practices ...

Your "it seems strange" is, of course, ironic: I can hardly see offering school children to each electrocute a pig or even just a hen ... The agricultural fair is the exhibition of "happy animals" to be useful to us "!
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Janic » 25/02/17, 15:04

Your "it seems strange" is, of course, ironic:
not at all, it's first degree.
For comparison, the agricultural fair presented to children is like the story of the beautiful princess and the valiant knight, but who does not speak of lady's rules, sexually transmitted diseases, the pill that promotes cancers, difficult pregnancies, etc ... which is not the enchanting aspect of the first part, but indeed the reality.
I can hardly see school children being electrocuted each for a pig or even just a chicken ...
This is what was done in the countryside without this show which hides the reality ... bloody! [*]
While it would not bother any parent, educator, to offer themto "shock" everyone a salad or even just an apple...
The agricultural show is the exhibition of animals "happy to help us"!
It is of course ironic! :D
Because these "dear animals" (who have nothing to do with medals) will end up, without the slightest emotion or recognition, at the slaughterhouse.

[*] carnivores educate their young in the face of the reality of hunting and the death of prey that they fully assume, which will allow them to do the same. Educators should therefore be happy to prepare this youth for their future assumed role of "carnivore" rather than hide from them, ashamed, what they nevertheless claim to be in their biological nature: kill for food! : Evil:
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by sen-no-sen » 25/02/17, 19:40

Ahmed wrote: The other point that she put forward was the uncertainty regarding the consumption of meat during the very long period of prehistory and, I add, the little known role of the relationship between hunting and religion.


It does not seem necessary to me to go back so far, the study of primitive tribes shows us that the consumption of meat is a global trend, and this, for reasons of food necessities.
Insofar as primitive societies are not dissipative of energy, it appears that it is animism which is imposed as a structure of belief and that the relationship between hunting and animals tended to ritual, mainly for reasons of respect.
Very early primitive societies understood the concept of death and the levies were generally accompanied by a set of rites in order to attract the good omens of spirits.
It is difficult however to specify the very first beliefs (more than 100 years ago) but they were apparently based on the cult of the dead and the spirits of nature, the first forms of shamanism apparently induced phosphenes. (residual images induced by bright light) or the consumption of psychotropic products promoting "contacts".
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Ahmed » 27/02/17, 18:29

Sen-no-sen, you write:
I have a hard time thinking that people would consume meat to sit their dominations with a desire (a pleasure?) To chew, digest and defecate an animal .... : roll:

No doubt this cannot be consciously assumed, but the success of transhumanist ideas clearly indicates the rejection of the animal part which is ours and, as an ultimate consequence, the destruction of the human for the benefit of the machine. Can a "mechanical" man imagine anything other than an extension of the performative rationality which animates him?
I see a continuity in the detestation of nature, of animals and of what in us is incarnated in her and in them. I specify that I am referring here only to the objective aspect of our behavior and not to our individual subjectivities ...

Further:
It does not seem to me necessary to go back as far, the study of primitive tribes shows us that the consumption of meat is a global trend, and this, for reasons of food necessity.

The trouble is that the childhood of humanity is so long that it is very presumptuous to rely on the way of life of the last primitive societies as described in the recent science of anthropology and draw relevant conclusions.
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...




by Janic » 27/02/17, 18:40

The trouble is that the childhood of humanity is so long that it is very presumptuous to rely on the way of life of the last primitive societies as described in the recent science of anthropology and draw relevant conclusions.
effectively! Anthropology is based, almost exclusively, on the discourse of evolutionism and transhumanism is only the extension of it through the technique replacing an insufficient and imperfect nature, leading to a kind of "relative immortality. "which is moreover, here too, only the extension of religious discourse. White beanie / white beanie! 8)
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