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john33
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Registration: 29/05/07, 14:27




by john33 » 30/05/07, 17:36

You see I wrote without rereading you and I realize that finally we agree on several points ...
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Targol
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by Targol » 30/05/07, 17:51

john33 wrote:You see I wrote without rereading you and I realize that finally we agree on several points ...


This is what I was going to answer too. On the other hand, if I can allow myself, ventilating your text a little would make it more readable.

In summary, I would say that we agree on the majority. The problem comes from the fact that, due to the colossal sums invested, the greatest opacity reigns over these technologies (industrial espionage requires).

In addition, such investments alone represent, by their enormity, a danger.

: Arrow: Imagine that one day, a laboratory technician realizes that the "miracle product" about to be marketed after large investments is highly carcinogenic (or other risk to health or the environment). Do you really believe that investors will stop everything (and therefore lose all their investments)?
In my opinion, the laboratory assistant will be paid handsomely to complete it (even, he will have an accident if he is too honest) and the product will be sold well ...

What do you think ?
Me, that is what scares me. :(
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"Anyone who believes that exponential growth can continue indefinitely in a finite world is a fool, or an economist." KEBoulding
john33
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by john33 » 31/05/07, 09:05

Let's take a concrete example ...
PHOTOCAL, the new product reacting by photocatalysis to the self-cleaning and antibacterial qualities that I presented in this blog ... It is undeniable that it is a small revolution ...

You imagine, buildings that are self-sufficient, considerably reduced upkeep and maintenance costs, a clean, preserved architectural heritage, which no longer degrades and keeps the appearance of new, the air of depolluted cities ...

Inside these same buildings, no more bacteria, viruses, microbes, mites, or VOCs ... buildings, hospitals, shopping centers, completely sanitized ... A release for the millions of allergy sufferers and asthmatics currently disabled by lack of effective solutions ... SARS and avian flu defeated ... And so on ...

Now, let's look at the other side of the product: It is formulated on the basis of nanoparticles ... We are currently doubting the possibility that nanoparticles enter our body, mainly our lungs ...

Well only for lack of information, we are currently witnessing an outcry which is positioned as formal and categorical opponents to the use of nanoparticles ...

However, the main risks are to be found in the personnel who handle the nanoparticles in powders on a daily basis and who are therefore highly exposed and subject to breathing and ingesting them in proportions that can indeed cause health problems.

Ditto perhaps for professionals who will use and apply these products daily on and in buildings ... Although at this stage the nanoparticles are no longer in powder but integrated in minute quantities in liquid binders and therefore already offering significantly less risks ...

But for you and me, you want to tell me what dangers we run? The quantities of nanoparticles contained in these products and returned to the treated M2 are ridiculously small and infinitely lower than what we breathe all day long in our daily life ... Nanoparticles emanating from diesel engines and incineration plants, toxic VOCs and carcinogens that we breathe in our workplace, in our home, in our car ...

However, a product like PHOTOCAL destroys all these pollutants!

Should we therefore purely and simply prohibit, in a generalist manner, the manufacture and use of this product by simple precautionary measure due to a lack of information and therefore to fears and to deprive ourselves of the considerable advantages it can we bring in terms of depollution and health?

Or would it not be enough simply to require personnel exposed to these powders and products, as is done in a multitude of other applications, to wear appropriate protective clothing (coveralls, gloves and mask)? .. and thus solve the problem?
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Targol
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by Targol » 31/05/07, 09:46

john33 wrote:Should we therefore purely and simply prohibit, in a generalist manner, the manufacture and use of this product by simple precautionary measure due to a lack of information and therefore to fears and to deprive ourselves of the considerable advantages it can we bring in terms of depollution and health?

Or would it not be enough simply to require personnel exposed to these powders and products, as is done in a multitude of other applications, to wear appropriate protective clothing (coveralls, gloves and mask)? .. and thus solve the problem?


First, thank you for ventilating the text a little, it is much more pleasant to read.

Otherwise, I agree with you, it is not a question of prohibiting but ofINFORM.
Reactions of epidermal rejection are generally due to fear of the unknown.

The best way to deal with this fear would be to have a lab do safety tests INDEPENDANT (the GMO tests carried out by MontSanto having completely discredited the tests carried out by the manufacturers).

Thus, people would know the real risks and could, with full knowledge of the facts, judge if the benefits outweigh the risks (if there are any).
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"Anyone who believes that exponential growth can continue indefinitely in a finite world is a fool, or an economist." KEBoulding
john33
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posts: 11
Registration: 29/05/07, 14:27




by john33 » 31/05/07, 23:03

The problem is that we make the tests say what we want ...

Example: Tests were carried out by an independent American laboratory (university) on rats. The aim was to analyze whether or not carbon nanoparticles breathed by these rats could be eliminated naturally by their lungs ...

Result: 3 rats out of 10 (30%), after a few weeks, demonstrated that a certain level of nanoparticles was present in their lungs and even in their brain!

Alert, alert !!!, carbon nanoparticles are therefore harmful to human health !!! General shakes with the publication of these results, the scientific press seizes the information, the environmental movements follow at the same time and amplify it ... In short, "a true anti-nanotechnology crusade" begins, sabers and gags forward ...

And then we learn ... that the lab in question was mandated by the most important American environmental movement (completely politicized moreover ... whose name I will not mention), that the quantities of nanoparticles that we made to breathe to these poor animals was incredibly exaggerated (basically, if you and I put together in a room, we breathed the SINGLE MEAL equivalent of what only one of these rats breathed in carbon nanoparticles, we die in the 1/4 hour ...) ... In short, huge anti-nanotechnology or rather anti-capitalist propaganda ...

On the other hand, I was entrusted with a file which reports very official French analyzes, carried out to test different filters of respiratory masks, also with carbon nanoparticles ... And well beware, to believe these analyzes , all the masks on the market are able to filter these famous nanoparticles without difficulty ...! And there, lack of luck, in our lab, we also tested these famous filters ... And we do not come to the same conclusions at all! Only class III filters (ie filters already really pros ...) are able to effectively filter these nanoparticles ...!

All this to conclude by saying that only dialogues (like this one) can really enlighten and inform people. And just for that, long live the internet ...

If you agree, I will take the time tomorrow to start telling a "case", a big "case", one more, which is maturing, preparing itself slowly, in the dark bosom of a consortium of 4 or 5 large well-known European companies, with the sole objective of monopolizing a technology, a market and not giving a damn about it ... To the detriment of whom? Ben of the poor jugs of citizens that we are ...

Banal, will you tell me ... Yes, banal ... But the interest is to understand the strategy, the means used by these groups, the cogs, the influences, the political "friendships", etc.

And this rotten soap opera (soap opera because the story is long to tell ...), I'm ready to spread it (if not to vomit it ...) on this blog ... if this interests you of course as well that the participants in this blog ...

And maybe many, by spreading the info from blog to blog, forum en forum, we can make sure to transform this future bomb into a simple wet beetle ...

And it's definitely worth it!

Good night,

John
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Targol
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by Targol » 01/06/07, 09:38

john33 wrote:If you agree, I will take the time tomorrow to start telling a "case" (...)


Of course that interests me.
On the other hand, it is better that you create another topic of discussion to avoid polluting this one on which we have already left both of us a little off-topic ...
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"Anyone who believes that exponential growth can continue indefinitely in a finite world is a fool, or an economist." KEBoulding
john33
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I learn econologic
posts: 11
Registration: 29/05/07, 14:27

photocatalysis PHOTOCAL




by john33 » 11/06/07, 07:25

For those who may be interested, here is a link to get more info on this famous PHOTOCAL coating acting by photocatalysis and resulting from nanotechnology, capable of making all surfaces self-cleaning and depolluting the ambient air: http://photocal.over-blog.com/
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