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Forhorse
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by Forhorse » 22/11/10, 17:20

Obamot wrote:After what follows, you will realize that "The religious integrist" it's you: with "Bill Gates" as a deity


Not at all, by the way I see that the pro unix / linux always have the same and only basic argument which is, to sum up: bill gates is evil.
it goes in circles, it is based on prejudices and it never advances to anything.

I am not "pro MS" more than I am "anti something else"
For 10 years I have tried Linux many times, under various distributions and I have seen a real evolution in favor of the average user that I am. I even "shot" under Bubuntu for several months.
Besides, if my IT activities were limited to the Internet, I would most certainly still be under this distribution.
Now I dream of trying MacOsX, but since I don't want to buy a PC that costs twice the price of what I could have with something assembled myself, I am waiting for Apple to review its position on the 'ban on installing their OS on anything other than a Mac (but since in the integrist genre they are not bad either ...)

Now, for various reasons (development software in electronics and automation, games, etc.) I had to go back to windows.
But since I have nothing to blame windows since the 2000 version I don't see why I should bother to find alternatives (when they exist) when I already have everything I need under windows and that it works perfectly well.

You know what, it's a hazard but this weekend I had to restart an old PC under win3.11 because the software associated with an old hardware (well old ... produced until 2005 ... let's say that its manufacturer never wanted to ensure the follow-up of a gear which it sold however the eyes of the head. it was more profitable to release a new range incompatible with the old one but which brought nothing more history to force everyone to change everything, including the software, rather than just wearing their software for a newer bone)
Well yeah, there I agree, at that time windows was really a nameless dung. Just to connect to the gear and launch the diagnostic utility, the thing planted 4 or 5 times.

When there was only win95 / 98, which in the filthy genre was no better than 3.11, yeah I dreamed of an alternative and found it abused that we could sell something so crappy. That's why I started looking at Linux, before quickly realizing that it was unusable for me who did not want to spend hundreds of hours understanding how (and why) I had to compile the kernels :| and without even being sure that the manipulation I was doing was really taken into account (except when of course the thing became completely unusable because I had made a mistake)
In short, too elitist for me. (this is a bit what was claimed by Linux users at the time: to be an elite of computing ... if that at the base was not already a fundamentalist discourse)
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by Obamot » 22/11/10, 17:23

but if, but if. : Mrgreen:

You take yourself a Dell "who's fine" with two BIG DDs that you format one with a peced partition (having provided other ad-hoc partitions, if you want other OS of course) and on the other DD with a Mac partition (!), install OSX thanks to the patch found everywhere on the web. Then install the Windows-Linux_Sun_FreeBSD you want thanks to Parallels® and you have ALL the operating systems' you want ... by one 'click' ... from one window to the other. ..

... and so on! ^^ (but it's not supported by Apple ... will know pkoi) ^^
Last edited by Obamot the 22 / 11 / 10, 17: 33, 1 edited once.
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by Forhorse » 22/11/10, 17:31

Obamot wrote:but if, but if. : Mrgreen:

You take yourself a Dell "who's fine", install OSX with the patch ...and so on! With Parallels you have both ... from one window to the other ...


Except that legally you have no right.
Because otherwise there are (existed?) Simple modules to plug into USB which allow any PC (materially compatible) to run OSX ("patched"?) And if it was legal I would have done it already .
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by Obamot » 22/11/10, 17:41

.... pffff and:
- deprive the user of the possibility of running an app for which he paid the license is it legal?
- And when you have two licenses to delete / modify the source code of the previous version to oblige to use the new is it legal?
- And having softs that do things that you did not ask like rummaging through the pants of the system is it legal?
- And to prevent putting your files where you want on the HDD of a computer that you bought, is it legal?
- Is it legal to have your own artistic files locked with access restrictions?
- And having access restrictions on music files from CDs purchased legally and ending up with access restrictions, is it legal?
- Is it impossible to make copies, back-ups for strictly private use?
- The loss of textual data / disc reference / of the Label of the production house + author / composer / performers on the tag of AIFF / WAV source files, it is legal ...
- The impossibility of updating its device drivers ... making them de facto is obsolescence legal?
- Downward incompatibility, it's legal, as soon as you PAY the license?
- Is the change of the general conditions without the knowledge and on behalf of the user legal?
- The incompatibility of interfaces pushing de facto all the equipment impossible to connect to the scrap, is it legal?
- Is the abandonment of the standards in force concerning plug-ins and other add-on's legal?
- Is the systematic slowdown of machines by clockwork when making updates of softs or OS, is it legal?
- The inability to access the old graphics mode (yet still present in the source code), and less greedy in processor resource and memory resource, is it legal?
- The non-implementation of the old modes of any software, yet still present in the source code, is it legal?
etc ...

No, but! : Mrgreen:

And that's bogus since Apple's "boot-camps" allow it and Parallels has all the required licenses ...

If you paid your Windaube license, or Mac-in-chiotte and the softwares that go with it: no one cannot prevent you from using YOUR machine as YOU see fit!

They have many more corpses in their cupboards to come and investigate people for so little! Besides, Apple does not care completely, they do not make their figure with Macs (whose branch is just in black numbers)

So stop with your ethics of boulevard stp, you're going to make us cry! : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
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by chatelot16 » 22/11/10, 18:12

the software license contracts that you have to accept to install software scorn the buyer: when I become president it will no longer be valid! finally president will not be enough, it will be dictator ...

I understand forhorse ... to make the programming of microcontroller the tools provided by the manufacturer are all under windows ... we can sometimes find what is needed under linux, but what a waste of time

linux is progressing regularly, I just had the experience to avoid learning windows seven on a new pc with some drivers not found for windowsXP: ubuntu installs on its own without problem and everything works well: it knows how to partition very well the hard drive to leave windows seven in a corner

for word processing spreadsheet and internet linux + open office are very good

it only happens when you want expensive professional software, which never works under linux, because nothing in linux allows you to make locked software
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by Obamot » 22/11/10, 18:39

Mmmmwouais, but the basic principle is still that if I buy a car, I bring whoever I want inside, whatever their passport or their "type", if I want to put skis elsewhere than on the roof is MY problem. Or "it's like she's not at my house". ! : Lol:
So no, it is wrong, the ease of development of a controller in one environment rather than another, must not penalize the user, nor restrict his rights ... And then there is ALL the rest!

By the way, you still did not give us the link which would indicate that Microsoft would have bought Adobe? : Mrgreen: 8) : Cheesy:
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by chatelot16 » 22/11/10, 19:17

adobe i saw this information pass somewhere but i didn't keep a trace of it

but google will say something

for the main thing, I agree, when we buy something we must be able to do with it what we want ... the license contracts that we are forced to accept are nonsense ... alas there has battered donkeys that command
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by chatelot16 » 22/11/10, 19:22

it was only a rumor
http://www.google.fr/search?hl=fr&sourc ... =&gs_rfai=

it is quite possible that microsoft would like to buy adobe: it is well in their style, and I am glad that this rumor is false
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by Forhorse » 23/11/10, 07:42

[quote = "Obamot"] Mmmmwouais, but the basic principle is still that if I buy a car, I get whoever I want inside, whatever their passport or their "gender", if I want to put skis elsewhere than on the roof, that's MY problem. Or "it's like she's not at my house". ! : Lol:
[Quote]

Not quite.
For example, you do not have the right to knowingly transport a wanted criminal, it is complicity and it is criminally reprehensible.
You also do not have the right to load and transport illegal substances (drugs for example)
Your skis you can put them anywhere as long as you respect the highway code: for example, you are not allowed to let them exceed one meter by a side window.
Yes, you can do whatever you want with YOUR car, as long as you follow the law.
The intellectual property laws are perhaps not very fair, or even sometimes frankly absurd, we agree. However, we should normally respect them.
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by Obamot » 23/11/10, 11:01

Of course we must respect the laws, still they must have a merit, they must be applicable ... and still that the jurisprudence does not give them new directions ... custom also force of law .... As such, manufacturers of software and even operating systems are often "outside the law".

But things are drastically changing, again you are not very aware of what is going on!

The question is not there with regard to this thread, it is whether the fact of withdrawing "de facto" the enjoyment of a property that one has already acquired is correct, and if the "malicious will" is proven it is indeed an offense. So the laws must apply to everyone, right.

Raising the problem from a legal perspective was clever on your part, but it proved you wrong.

Jurists are today led to take up the problem again. So we have to take examples from other sectors of the industry and see if there are not conflicts of rights in practices and practices. And there we see that there is an abyssal void!

Because we must defer the use of computers to our practices in everyday life. When you buy a vehicle, you don't sell me the manual separately, nor the computer logic that makes all of today's vehicles work .... How it should be so different with IT . If you knew the history a little better (ie "the custom") you would realize that the philosophy of those who were behind it was not to charge "programs". Since the programs are the background task that allows the machine to be used!

Because in their minds, it would have amounted to charging twice for the work (I will not dwell on it, it seems so obvious. There are so many other examples: washing machine sold separately from the programmer, plane sold without its manuals, without autopilot, without logic control functions ... etc). The sale of software is a strictly commercial drift or could almost say that legally speaking it is an insworn. Or if you prefer this neologism: "legal"! In the sense that it is a kind of "fait accompli" which has not yet really been sufficiently dissected according to the rules which prevail in the law (but do not count on me to give you a course, there are a lot of theses on this in college). : Cheesy:

To explain why all this must be reviewed, is that we must take the problem at its simplest, a computer can be generally compared to a set of "open or closed" doors (or even "neither open" "nor closed "in certain avant-garde architectures, it seems to me ...). Thus, charging for a program amounts to charging a right to use a switch!

But things are changing, even if it's not easy! Because no one can deny that a program requires development time that must be paid. This does not mean that he must hold the consumer hostage, get paid several times by the redundancy of licenses, force the consumer into situations which - if he had known them - would not have acquired the good. .... etc. So should this price be included in the purchase price of the “hardware”? The debate has not finished raging, the question is still linked to abuse and the aim of the exercise is to correctly place the "cursor", which has not yet been done, to all evidence had regard to the said abuses which are proof of this.

Things are moving in "object programming" and "open source"
Le Journal du Net, 10 Nov 2010 wrote:Open Source: European Commission slapped on the wrist for choosing Microsoft

The European Commission will have to review its strategy for the internal use of Open Source software. It is currently on the verge of renewing a contract worth nearly 50 million euros, with Fujitsu, for the installation of Microsoft software on at least 36 computers operated by the Commission and other European organizations. officials. However, MEPs have stepped up to denounce the legality and the merits of the choice of the European Commission. The contract was indeed signed in the days following the$ 640 million fine imposed on Microsoft by the European Commission for abuse of a dominant position in 2008. Some MEPs invoked the law and considered that this conviction should have excluded Microsoft from the invitation to tender. Under insistent pressure from MEPs, the Commission said it is examining its strategy for the internal use of open source software. This official document will be reissued when updated.


In the era of object programming - since you speak of the law - once you have paid for the license for the use of such an "object" it is completely illegal and unjustifiable to charge it multiple times . By way of example, we can note:
- printer driver (generic PostScript, Draw, rasterization principle, etc.);
- management of other dedicated peripherals (screen, USB ports, SCSI, SATA, graphics tablet / s, keyboard / s);
- page description language (ie PostScript, TIFF, RTF etc);
... and the customization should be open source for the user, so that if a product is no longer supported, the owner can establish the links himself through a simple protocol mask, so that his device continues to work!

This list is not exhaustive, but given this thread, your position is hardly defensible! We cannot decently accept that each time the owner of a vehicle changes, the new purchaser has to buy a license just to read the driver's manual ...! We are in a totally absurd world where we go so far as to charge for "services" already implemented in the source code!

Already we often force the driver to relearn to drive ... It will be necessary that one day, for example with ISO standards, we stop this "endless story"!

I think that you know very well where I am coming from, that you understood the message a long time ago since you do not answer the previous questions I raised. We can therefore assimilate your intervention to paid spam. : Mrgreen: Yes, yes, it eats up our "time" and I believe that you are almost the only person to defend this collection of preconceived ideas and odious business practices "in the name of the law". So precisely that you know a priori that it is a world of predators, since you yourself were making a very inappropriate allusion to "bisounours".

Me, I like "bisounours", and I would like that future generations can continue to have sweet dreams. Innocence, carelessness, poetry etc ... are essential ingredients to stimulate creativity and keep hope for a better, brighter and fairer world ...
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