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Christophe
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Re: Are we alone in the Universe?

Unread Messageby Christophe » 04/06/17, 10:39

New theories: http://www.iflscience.com/space/hiberna ... -life-yet/

In English google translates this gives:

Scientists have proposed a rather interesting reason for the reason why we have not yet found strangers, a problem known as the Fermi paradox (if life is so abundant, where is everyone?). They propose that intelligent extraterrestrials may be in a state of hibernation, waiting for the universe to become colder so they can be more productive.

This idea was proposed in the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, with a preprint available on arXiv. The paper was written by Anders Sandberg, Stuart Armstrong and Milan Cirkovic of the Institute of the Future of Humanity at Oxford University, and was recently resumed by Gizmodo.

Some people think that a much more advanced civilization than ours could become a digital race. That is, they will live in artificial intelligence inside computers, suppressing more limited charnable bodies. Experts, including Elon Musk, have suggested that this is a logical progression in the future.

If we are not alone in the universe (which we do not yet have any proof of), we could therefore propose more that an advanced foreign race could have descended in this direction. But to get the most out of their new digital bodies, they might not like the universe right now.

The temperature of the universe at this time is 3 degrees Kelvin above absolute zero. It is quite cold, but this temperature will continue to fall as the universe develops. Sandberg and colleagues claim that the temperature in the future could allow 1030 other computer processes than is currently possible.

"We therefore suggest a" topical hypothesis "," the researchers write in their journal, adding that "the reason why we do not observe the manifestations of extraterrestrial civilizations is that they are currently (most of the Time) inactive, patiently await the future cosmic epochs ". Is basically hibernation to avoid warmer temperatures, and not the cooler ones.
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Re: Are we alone in the Universe?

Unread Messageby moinsdewatt » 04/06/17, 14:34

Future of Humanity Institute of the University of Oxford likes cold capillotracting
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Re: Are we alone in the Universe?

Unread Messageby Exnihiloest » 06/06/17, 17:45

Agree with lessdewatt on the capillotractage.

Causes much more likely:
- we are the only ones
- the exploration of the universe does not impose physical displacements (palliated by discrete observation means at a distance)
- the evolution of intelligent species leads to abandon exploration of the universe for more interesting or useful purposes
- the evolution of intelligent species causes them to slaughter or commit suicide before reaching the capacity for galactic exploration
- zoo theory: we live in it and what we see of the universe is entirely controlled by a superior intelligence
- ...

The first hypothesis is by far the most likely. Cosmological theories are increasingly contemplating that our universe and its physical laws are but one of an immeasurable number of other universes with different laws. If there is a certain probability that in such universes the physical laws allow the appearance of observers, a universe with only one type of observer is more likely than two or more, and therefore we earth observers of Our universe, are simply at the top of the Gauss curve, which was statistically the most probable.
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Re: Are we alone in the Universe?

Unread Messageby moinsdewatt » 06/06/17, 20:17

Or simply:

Our neighbors have not come to see us because they are way too far.

And eventually if they tried they got auto destroyed along the way, space road that demands thousands of years.
Humans are a bit of a cons, there's no reason why it should not be valid for other civilizations in other stars.
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Re: Are we alone in the Universe?

Unread Messageby Exnihiloest » 06/06/17, 22:26

moinsdewatt wrote:Or simply:

Our neighbors have not come to see us because they are way too far.

And eventually if they tried they got auto destroyed along the way, space road that demands thousands of years.
Humans are a bit of a cons, there's no reason why it should not be valid for other civilizations in other stars.


There is no distance limit for intergalactic exploration, for if one approaches the speed of light, then the traveler's time slows down, it is a consequence of the restricted relativity.
Example:
One wants to go on Alpha Centaurus which is about 4 light-years. At a speed close to the speed of light, we would need about 4 years to go.
True ?
No, I'm wrong! 4 years, it is the duration of our journey seen by those left on earth. But for us, in our spaceship, the time t 'will be equal to t * √ (1-v² / c²) where v is our velocity. If we go to the speed of light minus 1 millionth, instead of the 4 years seen from the Earth our journey will last 4 * √ (1-999999² / 1000000²) = 0,0056 year = 2 days.


There is no limit of principle, one can theoretically go from one "end" to another of the universe in an arbitrarily short time, finally almost because the expansion of the universe somewhat contradicts our project But this is another problem and in any case billions of galaxies are still accessible.
So although far, very far, very far, if our neighbors have the technological advance that allows the approach of the speed of light, they can come to see us.
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Re: Are we alone in the Universe?

Unread Messageby sen-no-sen » 06/06/17, 23:47

The displacement could even be instantaneous via a "wormhole".

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Re: Are we alone in the Universe?

Unread Messageby izentrop » 07/06/17, 00:18

A Gaulish adage said: "With some, we would put Lutetia in an amphora."
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Re: Are we alone in the Universe?

Unread Messageby Christophe » 07/06/17, 10:27

Exnihiloest wrote:There is no distance limit for intergalactic exploration, for if one approaches the speed of light, then the traveler's time slows down, it is a consequence of the restricted relativity.
Example:
One wants to go on Alpha Centaurus which is about 4 light-years. At a speed close to the speed of light, we would need about 4 years to go.
True ?
No, I'm wrong! 4 years, it is the duration of our journey seen by those left on earth. But for us, in our spaceship, the time t 'will be equal to t * √ (1-v² / c²) where v is our velocity. If we go to the speed of light minus 1 millionth, instead of the 4 years seen from the Earth our journey will last 4 * √ (1-999999² / 1000000²) = 0,0056 year = 2 days.


I trust you on the formula (thank you in passing I did not know it and I thought it was more complicated *) but according to what I had learned it is AMHA the reverse: time slows down when you s Approach to the speed of light but travelers to Proxima will have to stay on the road during 4 years "in their time" ... otherwise it would mean that in "ship time" one can largely exceed the speed of light ?!?).

In other words, it is not the traveler's time that slows down but that of the observer accelerates ...

And by applying the formula: each "2 days ship", 4 years will flow on earth ... when they arrive (4 years in time ship therefore) it will have happened on Earth: 365 * 4 / 2 * 4 = 2920 years ... and idem for all points at the same speed as the Earth. This will also cause problems of forecasting trajectories too! : Mrgreen:

Do I eat?

In short, we are stuck on Earth and well blocked!

* This formula assumes that the speed of the "fixed" point is negligible I presume?

Ps: you have to undergo 1G acceleration for a little less than a year to reach the speed of light. Order of magnitude to have in mind ... then must not forget to brake : Mrgreen: In short it is bad to go to walk in the stars : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
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Re: Are we alone in the Universe?

Unread Messageby Christophe » 07/06/17, 10:30

moinsdewatt wrote:Or simply:

Our neighbors have not come to see us because they are way too far.

And eventually if they tried they got auto destroyed along the way, space road that demands thousands of years.
Humans are a bit of a cons, there's no reason why it should not be valid for other civilizations in other stars.


I am more of this theory :)

In this regard, the famous signal "Wow" (which I never understood lol), would have been solved, it was a comet ...

extra_large-1496765233-cover-image.jpg
Extra_large-1496765233-cover-image.jpg (29.61 Kio) Viewed 563 times


http://www.iflscience.com/space/the-wow ... f-a-comet/
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Re: Are we alone in the Universe?

Unread Messageby Exnihiloest » 08/06/17, 00:13

Christophe wrote:I trust you on the formula (thank you in passing I did not know it and I thought it was more complicated *)

Yes it is simple, it is the "transform of Lorentz" for the time. But here we are in limited relativity. If gravity intervenes, it is necessary to appeal to the general relativity, and it is not cotton at all ...

But according to what I had learned it is AMHA the reverse: time slows down when approaching the speed of light but travelers to Proxima will have to stay well during 4 years travel "in their time". Otherwise it would mean that in "vessel time" one can largely exceed the speed of light (?!?).
In other words, it is not the traveler's time that slows down but that of the observer accelerates ...

And by applying the formula: each "2 days ship", 4 years will flow on earth ... when they arrive (4 years in time ship therefore) it will have happened on Earth: 365 * 4 / 2 * 4 = 2920 years ... and idem for all points at the same speed as the Earth. This will also cause problems of forecasting trajectories too! : Mrgreen:

Do I eat?


Yes, regarding the time spent in the ship. This is explained here: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilatation_du_temps.
Time depends on the marker where it is measured. When we measure it in our own landmark (the earth for the earthlings, the vessel for the travelers), the one where our velocity is zero with respect to this reference, it is called the proper time.

When measuring the time of events in another coordinate system, we must make corrections in order to find the proper time in the other reference frame, starting from the time measured in our measurement frame.
This is where the Lorentz transform of the time Δt = ΔΤ * (1-v² / c²) occurs) where Δt is the time measured in us of something "at a distance" and ΔΤ the eigenvalue of This something. So I used ΔΤ = Δt * √ (1-v² / c²) to obtain from the time Δt of 1 years measured by the earthlings, the ship's own time, that the traveler has lived, ie 4 days.

The principle of relativity is that we do not know who is moving. There is no absolute speed. Travelers see the earthlings moving away from them at the same speed as the earthlings see the travelers moving away. It is perfectly symmetrical.
What will create dissymmetry is the return, because then the speed can not be constant for the one who turns. If travelers make a U-turn, on their return they will have lived 4 days since their departure from Earth and the Earthlers them, will have 8 years older.

We can still deal with the problem in the context of restricted relativity although there are half-turns therefore non-constant speed, provided that we make a few assumptions (especially at the top start, we consider that travelers are already at Almost the speed c), otherwise we have to go through general relativity, courageous have done, and they find the same result as with restricted relativity (phew! :D ).

Note that this has been verified experimentally, it is not cinema, I say for those who believe that we are in science fiction. The lifetime of certain radioactive atoms is known. By projecting them at high speed in a particle accelerator, we realize that their lifetime increases according to the predictions of Einstein's relativity.

...
Ps: you have to undergo 1G acceleration for a little less than a year to reach the speed of light. Order of magnitude to have in mind ... then must not forget to brake : Mrgreen: In short it is bad to go to walk in the stars : Cheesy: : Cheesy:

Which means that a realistic journey at the speed of light will have to last at least two years if one does not want to undergo a painful acceleration of several g ...
But hey, we can also hope to find the trick for anti-gravity (so anti-acceleration). There's work ...
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