It's been a long time since there has been any real working class in France ... with the solidarity and brotherhood that it included!
I don't understand why you say you don't agree since you say the same thing as him !!
The work, a scam for? Doc: Killing of work
-
- Moderator
- posts: 79118
- Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
- Location: Greenhouse planet
- x 10973
Christophe wrote:
I don't understand why you say you don't agree since you say the same thing as him !!
Because I took all of the quoted paragraphs as "flat"... Presumably wrongly, I see ...
So I had understood (probably wrongly), that the downside was also that there was nothing new, that this is known, that "why we are complaining today about the cashier and no longer the worker "...
This is the risk on forums !!!
0 x
-
- Moderator
- posts: 79118
- Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
- Location: Greenhouse planet
- x 10973
Uh did67, I don't understand but it's not bad: I understand the substance of what you are saying! It's essential!
I think Aumicron simply meant that it has always existed but that now that it affects the more "intellectual" professions (or rather less "manual") it shocks more ... And I agree 100% with him ...
Bad news I got into programming, so I didn't record part 1 ...
Otherwise part 2 of the doc is tonight at 23:05 p.m. still on FR3 at the same time as the doc on FR2 about 11/09 see (bottom of) https://www.econologie.com/forums/11-septemb ... 4-150.html
I record the 2 or the 3?
I think Aumicron simply meant that it has always existed but that now that it affects the more "intellectual" professions (or rather less "manual") it shocks more ... And I agree 100% with him ...
Bad news I got into programming, so I didn't record part 1 ...
Otherwise part 2 of the doc is tonight at 23:05 p.m. still on FR3 at the same time as the doc on FR2 about 11/09 see (bottom of) https://www.econologie.com/forums/11-septemb ... 4-150.html
I record the 2 or the 3?
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum
-
- Moderator
- posts: 79118
- Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
- Location: Greenhouse planet
- x 10973
Recorded and watched episode 2
This mainly concerns a practical case at Fenwick.
The practice of LBO (leveraged buy-out or when finance fully controls the industry while the reverse is "healthy" and "sustainable") is clearly explained there.
It's breathtaking cynicism and dehumanism ... and it explains a lot ...
To summarize the LBO practice from what I entered:
- a group of businessmen buy an industrial group with a small contribution, a strong bank indebtedness (therefore tax exempt),
- they ask to significantly boost the production / sales / human resources objectives (therefore massive + or - layoffs) to make MAX financial liquidity in the company,
- They use this cash to pay off their debt,
- From a moment, having boosted (more or less artificially) the purely financial profitability of the company, they can resell it by pocketing a nice higher value. Apparently it's ultra profitable ... for businessmen ...
Neither the field of activity of the company, nor the country, nor the social and human conditions are part of the concern of these people there ... only the financial profitability counts ...
It created disasters as much human as industrial ...
But each "link" of the "industrial chain" of a company is an accomplice in this game ... even the worker who agrees to work more / better for no economic compensation for his apple !!
It's just GERBER !!!
So much for Part 2 ... Part 1 should be on Daily in a few days ...
ps: it is much better explained on wiki http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leveraged_buyout
This mainly concerns a practical case at Fenwick.
The practice of LBO (leveraged buy-out or when finance fully controls the industry while the reverse is "healthy" and "sustainable") is clearly explained there.
It's breathtaking cynicism and dehumanism ... and it explains a lot ...
To summarize the LBO practice from what I entered:
- a group of businessmen buy an industrial group with a small contribution, a strong bank indebtedness (therefore tax exempt),
- they ask to significantly boost the production / sales / human resources objectives (therefore massive + or - layoffs) to make MAX financial liquidity in the company,
- They use this cash to pay off their debt,
- From a moment, having boosted (more or less artificially) the purely financial profitability of the company, they can resell it by pocketing a nice higher value. Apparently it's ultra profitable ... for businessmen ...
Neither the field of activity of the company, nor the country, nor the social and human conditions are part of the concern of these people there ... only the financial profitability counts ...
It created disasters as much human as industrial ...
But each "link" of the "industrial chain" of a company is an accomplice in this game ... even the worker who agrees to work more / better for no economic compensation for his apple !!
It's just GERBER !!!
So much for Part 2 ... Part 1 should be on Daily in a few days ...
ps: it is much better explained on wiki http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leveraged_buyout
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum
-
- Moderator
- posts: 79118
- Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
- Location: Greenhouse planet
- x 10973
Ah I only found an excerpt from part 1 for the moment:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xay2kt ... nce-3_news
What a bunch of whore languages these salesman managers ...
By cons I found doc: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9h0dd ... r19_webcam
Released a few months ago (but concerns pvd workers)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xay2kt ... nce-3_news
What a bunch of whore languages these salesman managers ...
By cons I found doc: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9h0dd ... r19_webcam
Released a few months ago (but concerns pvd workers)
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum
I go back a bit to tell Did67 that I understand what he means and that I agree with what he writes.
As for Aumicron's astonishment at the fact that these working conditions are sad today but not in the past:
As he said, the worst conditions were "reserved" for the working class. But this class still had hopes that they could make things better:
- by the struggle for their working conditions (unions, etc.). And this improvement was possible by improving hygiene, safety, better remuneration etc.
- by the hope that his children, through education and diplomas, could get out of this condition and access less painful and better paid jobs.
The problem these days is that poor working conditions have spread to ALL professions and all classes. Of course the premises are no longer unsanitary, security is better ensured, but:
- the pressure of profitability, the persecution by the "little bosses", the deprivation of initiatives but not of responsibilities, permanent surveillance ...
- the most serious in my opinion: there is almost no hope of escaping this condition. Young people have studied as they were told and find themselves in jobs worse than those of their parents and less paid. The older ones feel the wind of unemployment blowing in their backs and from 45/50 years old know very well that they hardly have any more chances of finding a job if they lose theirs. The blackmail is permanent: "if you do not increase your productivity, the factory relocates to Romania" "If you do not work until 22 pm to finish this customer file, we replace you with a young person who will not balk" " If you work those night hours, we might consider a longer contract for you "...
In short, hope is dead ... Fortunately, consumption is there to compensate! And as a customer I take myself for the king: I will finally be able to compensate for my frustrations with the cashiers / salespeople / call center staff / assembler at Carglas ...
As for Aumicron's astonishment at the fact that these working conditions are sad today but not in the past:
As he said, the worst conditions were "reserved" for the working class. But this class still had hopes that they could make things better:
- by the struggle for their working conditions (unions, etc.). And this improvement was possible by improving hygiene, safety, better remuneration etc.
- by the hope that his children, through education and diplomas, could get out of this condition and access less painful and better paid jobs.
The problem these days is that poor working conditions have spread to ALL professions and all classes. Of course the premises are no longer unsanitary, security is better ensured, but:
- the pressure of profitability, the persecution by the "little bosses", the deprivation of initiatives but not of responsibilities, permanent surveillance ...
- the most serious in my opinion: there is almost no hope of escaping this condition. Young people have studied as they were told and find themselves in jobs worse than those of their parents and less paid. The older ones feel the wind of unemployment blowing in their backs and from 45/50 years old know very well that they hardly have any more chances of finding a job if they lose theirs. The blackmail is permanent: "if you do not increase your productivity, the factory relocates to Romania" "If you do not work until 22 pm to finish this customer file, we replace you with a young person who will not balk" " If you work those night hours, we might consider a longer contract for you "...
In short, hope is dead ... Fortunately, consumption is there to compensate! And as a customer I take myself for the king: I will finally be able to compensate for my frustrations with the cashiers / salespeople / call center staff / assembler at Carglas ...
0 x
-
- Moderator
- posts: 79118
- Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
- Location: Greenhouse planet
- x 10973
Hello
May be valid in Europe, but in Canada there is not such a large wage gap between workers.
In a steelworks, the manual worker, operator, electrician, lab technician, the difference is not 30%
Foreman, engineer, wages barely higher than a mechanical electrical worker and even when the worker does overtime he greatly exceeds it.
the executive if he does not walk in the direction of his boss, we show him the door and strongly recommend that he resign or else he will not be able to get hired elsewhere. the worker must be unionized if a union exists (RAND formula) there is only one syndycat in the same factory, promotions are opted by seniority, if the worker is able to do the job, the stakes on foot are done by antiquity ..
It's funny in a historical report I saw Petain make a similar speech about work ?? Who benefited from this work ..
What is disturbing is these large multinationals which seize the steelworks, large industries, the food market, energy and they have no human respect, there is that one thing, put your pockets in the short term. It manipulates governments and I would even say that it influences democratic voting (you just have to look at the multinationals in South America how they decide, which government should be in place (Pinochet ect ..) We must not kid ourselves are more suptile in industrialized countries, but they work the same way underground.
(he adjusts to look at where the financing of electoral campaigns comes from, a real sieve on electoral law) in addition he has all the media in their pay.
They make us believe that if we don't buy this, or that, we have no place in society.
It makes people who go into debt, and who usually works with two, the children at the daycare, just to have a big house, a recent car, and go on vacation in exotic countries, bring back lots of photos then there imagine they are (someone) ..
Sometimes I wonder if our ancestors of (Germinal) would imagine that their descendants will still have to live
Andre
The "white collar" had the good role. Everyone dreamed of becoming a "manager". Parensts encouraged children to study (they succeeded ... or not, for that matter!).
May be valid in Europe, but in Canada there is not such a large wage gap between workers.
In a steelworks, the manual worker, operator, electrician, lab technician, the difference is not 30%
Foreman, engineer, wages barely higher than a mechanical electrical worker and even when the worker does overtime he greatly exceeds it.
the executive if he does not walk in the direction of his boss, we show him the door and strongly recommend that he resign or else he will not be able to get hired elsewhere. the worker must be unionized if a union exists (RAND formula) there is only one syndycat in the same factory, promotions are opted by seniority, if the worker is able to do the job, the stakes on foot are done by antiquity ..
It's funny in a historical report I saw Petain make a similar speech about work ?? Who benefited from this work ..
What is disturbing is these large multinationals which seize the steelworks, large industries, the food market, energy and they have no human respect, there is that one thing, put your pockets in the short term. It manipulates governments and I would even say that it influences democratic voting (you just have to look at the multinationals in South America how they decide, which government should be in place (Pinochet ect ..) We must not kid ourselves are more suptile in industrialized countries, but they work the same way underground.
(he adjusts to look at where the financing of electoral campaigns comes from, a real sieve on electoral law) in addition he has all the media in their pay.
They make us believe that if we don't buy this, or that, we have no place in society.
It makes people who go into debt, and who usually works with two, the children at the daycare, just to have a big house, a recent car, and go on vacation in exotic countries, bring back lots of photos then there imagine they are (someone) ..
Sometimes I wonder if our ancestors of (Germinal) would imagine that their descendants will still have to live
Andre
0 x
-
- Similar topics
- Replies
- views
- Last message
-
- 3 Replies
- 1534 views
-
Last message by phil59
View the latest post
20/11/22, 21:10A subject posted in the forum : Company and Philosophy
-
- 49 Replies
- 19747 views
-
Last message by Janic
View the latest post
04/11/16, 08:40A subject posted in the forum : Company and Philosophy
-
- 8 Replies
- 6898 views
-
Last message by Christophe
View the latest post
24/11/20, 16:52A subject posted in the forum : Company and Philosophy
Back to "Society and Philosophy"
Who is online ?
Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 225 guests