François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

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Ahmed
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François Roddier, thermodynamics and society




by Ahmed » 22/03/14, 12:50

Following discussions with Sen-no-sen and thanks to him, theories F. Roddier appear very promising conceptually and therefore deserve a place in itself.

Likely to integrate with other explanatory grids this global vision that deserves some attention here in order to exploit the potential and discuss any limitations or ambiguities.
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by sen-no-sen » 22/03/14, 13:13

A little introduction:

François Roddier was born in 1936, it is astrophysicist known for his work on compensation for the effects of atmospheric turbulence when observing the stars.
He studied in France, where he creates the Department of Astrophysics at the University of Nice and United States national optical astronomy observatory in Tucson, Arizona and at the Institute for Astrophysics of the University of Hawaii.
Now retired he is engaged in a vast synthesis work to unify the different interactions at work in our society:The thermo-bio-sociology

Note that Henri Laborit had announced came after him (the bio-sociology) A broader reading grid, which is now the case!

A conference of this great man, so little known (!):
http://www.canal-u.tv/video/cerimes/la_thermodynamique_de_l_evolution_du_big_bang_aux_sciences_humaines.9530
(I also invite you to look the other U channel videos if you like science!)

His blog:
http://www.francois-roddier.fr/

An article on the "oil man" blog:
http://petrole.blog.lemonde.fr/2013/10/30/francois-roddier-par-dela-leffet-de-la-reine-rouge/

François Roddier beyond the effect of the Red Queen

A French astrophysicist reinterprets the evolution of the universe, of life and human societies from thermodynamics, and discovers the monstrous trap us tense. Revolutionary ?

"Here, you see, you have to run as fast as possible to stay put," says the Red Queen in Through the Looking Glass, the second book of Lewis Carroll's Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.

To cope with the depletion of oil fields came into decline, the black gold industry must constantly develop production of new resources intact: the equivalent of four additional Arabies Saudis to find in just ten years after Shell company, is nothing less than half the current world production. dizzying challenge, maybe impossible, in the center of the issues discussed on this blog.

I got used to compare this relentless need to run on a treadmill. More or less the same fateful race is on for all finite resources that we use. Its success or failure probably depends the fate of the growth economy.

When the environment changes faster than a living species can adapt, that species is doomed to become extinct. This is what the American biologist Leigh Van Valen called in 1973 the "red queen" effect.

François Roddier, French physicist renowned for his work in astronomy, made this effect of "the Red Queen" the core of a remarkable essay on the future of the human species published in 2012. Its title: Thermodynamics of evolution .


He is also the author of several books, including the famous thermodynamics of evolution, I board deeply Reading has all and all those who want to see a little clearer in the mechanisms at work in our world down: all the fundamental aspects are exhibited: evolution of the universe, of life, of society, of economy ... its conclusions are quite pessimistic about the short-term I warn you ...
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by Ahmed » 22/03/14, 14:45

We look forward to seeing you! Sen-no-sen for recalling these important links for understanding later.

From what it seems, it is no exaggeration to say that thermodynamics is dialectical in the sense that the constitution of complex organisms, effective in terms of heat dissipation, are threatened, a some stage in their development by the avalanche effect.
This is what introduces complexity in the mechanism.

Many of the things I said about this forum could easily be "translated" in terms of thermodynamics!

I would come back later on limited points I am not in full agreement with RoddierBecause the mechanics says it is concerned.

Consider instead a broader perspective. The economy merges with the energy, so it is possible to transcribe its recent evolution (2 / 3 centuries, anyway!) Thermodynamically.
Part of England, the industrial revolution based on coal eventually contaminate Europe and then, through colonization, the rest of the world.
The period in France known as the "glorious thirty", which I have already dealt with, corresponds to a maximization of thermodynamic dissipation thanks to Keynesian-inspired redistribution policies *, made to the detriment of other peoples.
Clearly we are in an open system, which draws outside resources (neocolonialism) to dissipate internally.
Recourse to Chinese production can be explained by the difference in potential between the standard of living in Europe and that of Asians. It is in fact the difference between the value of the same nominal sign depending on whether one is rich or poor that the “voltage” which favors the flow of the flow depends.

Today globalization is the final stage in this development: until now there was an open system that can always maintain balance (the Red Queen effect), but a times around the globe made, we we now find ourselves in the equivalent of a closed system and, therefore, close the systemic shift (avalanche).
That is why the turnaround in Europe, where the absence of new external outlets causes the decline in living standards of the middle class: the power dissipation can become difficult to grow, it is confiscated to their advantage by those who control the playing **.

At this point, only two deterministic possibilities remain (which could occur jointly, in distinct territories): either the company evolves towards an oligarchy reserving the right to "dissipation", protected by "watch dogs" benefiting from small advantages and muscularly keeping away a majority of the excluded (from dissipation); either this transition takes place too slowly and the whole collapses miserably.

This is to warn against these two formidable developments I try to warn, not to despair, but to explain that nothing is inevitable, there remains a possibility, provided, in the words François Roddier each act.

* A reservation that Keynes was right, while they are leftists who are behind this change.
** Game that shape too!
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by sen-no-sen » 22/03/14, 15:04

You're all right!
Besides we got there some months, maybe a year, a discussion of the merger (Z Machine) with our friend Cuicui, the conclusion that had been given is transcribed in the same terms in the Book "thermodynamics of evolution": it is utopian to believe that access to a source of energy could "save" us, - on the contrary - it would lead us towards our loss, at a speed proportional to the dissipation exerted!



I would come back later on limited points I am not in full agreement with Roddier because the mechanics says it is concerned


Indeed it would be very interesting!
As H.Laborit said in his time, any reading grid is enclosed in a larger one, we can consider that in a few decades even broader explanatory grid will emerge:The thermo-bio-sociology-quantum (bless you!).

H.Bloom (which I dedicate a later) to also develop an exciting reading grid:bio-sociology-cybernetics(Your love!), The two converged!
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by Janic » 22/03/14, 16:14

ahmed hello
This is to warn against these two formidable developments I try to warn, not to despair, but to explain that nothing is inevitable, there remains a possibility, provided, in the words that Francis Roddier each act.
The troubleshooting, it is the significant gap between the speed of change of the technological society and therefore consuming and very attached to their cultures and mentalities tradition that they change very slowly.
It's like the race between the tortoise and the hare but ...! :?
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by Ahmed » 22/03/14, 16:44

Yes, it is also the position that I defended concerning "Désertec" and the fantasies of regreening of the deserts that (sometimes) go with it.
Ditto with speculations on "free" energy ...

It seems extremely odd that this evidence of excess power available and therefore implementation, on the contrary perceived as a lack possible (it is not possible, but some!) Who would sign the end of our civilization ... strange blindness!

Another convergence between thermodynamics and my point is that I willingly explains that the most expensive projects (and not those with a cost / benefit interesting) and the most inefficient are most likely to be selected: those which involve maximizing energy dissipation, thus possible private gain (as in the case of ITER).

Roddier discusses the case of the USSR, saying that it is a meme mutation that created a new field Ising; He then explains that the company has declined because liberal ideology is more efficient in terms of energy waste.
This is not my analysis; For my part, I consider that the Soviet regime is the need for catch-up modernization (energy waste) from the delay with respect to the West, catching up was to pass a command economy (just like in France after the second World war).
The result in terms of energy dissipation seems pretty convincing to be able to say that this system generally allowed this catch: it was logical that the USSR effondrât after playing its role.
More "Rodderian" than me, you're dying! 8)

What I find interesting in the above example is that the grid F. Roddier is not unambiguous and it must be wary of too mechanical application.
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by sen-no-sen » 22/03/14, 18:43

Ahmed wrote:What I find interesting in the above example is that the grid F. Roddier is not unambiguous and it must be wary of too mechanical application.


Absolutely!
An example with the warrior thermodynamics since the dawn of humanity, humans have ceased to develop weapons to maximize the damage and the number of dead among the enemy.
This is going from simple to launch the H-bomb, the ultimate symbol of power dissipation!
During the Cold War (which could have been very hot for it!) Russians and Americans engineers had the technical means to manufacture weapons of power 1000 megatonnes, self 1000 million tonne of TNT!

The tsar bomba was "only" 57 megatons ... and the Hiroshima bomb "only" 12,5 unfortunate kilotons!

An explosion of 1000 megatons would have been so significant that most of the blast would be dissipated in space ... that's why the MIRV (multiple nuclear heads) have been developed).

Russia has developed at the height of the Cold War almost 42 000 nuclear heads, which would have precipitated his fall, given the astronomical sudden maintenance!

But no offense to the peace, agreements arms reduction voted post cold war were only a smokescreen, because the superpowers are working now on setting the bomb point a pure fusion neutron, whose goal is not to maximize the amount of energy produced, but to maximize the number of deaths per amount of energy dissipated! Note the shade!

The maximum power dissipation must not therefore always be in direct terms, but in terms of final efficiency!
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by Ahmed » 22/03/14, 19:44

The maximum power dissipation must not therefore always be in direct terms, but in terms of final efficiency!

Of course! Thus consumption (and pollution) motor vehicle gradually decreases while their consumption (and pollution!) Overall increases inexorably. There is no contradiction to the principle of maximizing the distribution of energy in these developments.

Similarly, in line with the measures to limit pollution on the device, it is to stay in the Pigmentation compatible with accepted standards for public health; standards they themselves set to maximize traffic ... so the energy dissipation.

Thermodynamics allows us to understand the fallacy of the so-called "runoff" theory, according to which the wealth which is in the hands of a small number inevitably ends up spreading over the whole of society.
This might be true in a closed system, entropy effect, otherwise known thermodynamic leveling; ie that it would eventually establish for each monad an average level of fortune in a stable state. Each euro having in this case the same value for each one, the exchanges would be reduced to the strict minimum (still it would be advisable to know what a "minimum" is!).

In an open system, there are still affected sources of wealth differential as it is always possible to find agents so poor they agree to dissipate their energy in favor of richer than them and thus maintain differential: this is a feedback loop that maximizes the dissipation of energy.
This demonstration does not completely contradicts the one I posted in a previous message, namely that greater equality would generate an additional expense to that of a small oligarchy optimizing the dissipation observe if exist both a large middle class and a very poor class: it is possible to calculate the ideal proportions (so to speak!) through calculations completely out of my reach! :D

Warning! Maximize energy dissipation means not wasting the most energy in absolute terms, but waste as possible relatively in a given context.
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by sen-no-sen » 22/03/14, 20:45

Ahmed wrote:Similarly, in line with the measures to limit pollution on the device, it is to stay in the Pigmentation compatible with accepted standards for public health; standards they themselves set to maximize traffic ... so the energy dissipation.


All good!
This is the goal of sustainable development: to make sure that the system holds by flirting with the "limits" of the tolerable and those in order to be able to perpetuate the existing model!



Thermodynamics allows us to understand the fallacy of the so-called "runoff" theory, according to which the wealth which is in the hands of a small number inevitably ends up spreading over the whole of society.


Indeed this theory is wrong.
H.Bloom in the principle of Lucifer quotes Jesus Christ (one of the first cybernetic!):"For whoever has will be given, and he will have more abundance, but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away."

Cybernetics, neuroscience and thermodynamics (and the gospels of the time!) Converges: when a neural structure, human or urban etc ... is not stimulated it finally be removed from the system (biology apoptosis).
Conversely, a structure that is stimulated ultimately maximize its network of influence and thus its power dissipation: synaptic connections to a neuron, a fan group for a star, road networks for a city (if LA is talking !).

Image

neural network ....

Image

motorway network ... (LA)

This demonstration does not completely contradicts the one I posted in a previous message, namely that greater equality would generate an additional expense to that of a small oligarchy optimizing the dissipation observe if exist both a large middle class and a very poor class: it is possible to calculate the ideal proportions (so to speak!) through calculations completely out of my reach!


Also note that a deferral be little phenomenon observed: in a utopian society ultra egalitarian market and we would see a postponement of misery on foreign countries, invariably reproducing the class phenomenon, but over a greater surface! (This phenomenon is well on the current model!).
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by Ahmed » 22/03/14, 21:45

About your last comment: this is what I reported for French society after the war *, during which time a temporary trend to greater equality was made at the expense of other countries populations.
Is this not a characteristic of fractals?

* Trend began shortly before the Second World War interrupted by the conflict.
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